Aweber’s Queer Little Accounting Method

While Aweber is the flagship of email marketing and list management, particularly among Internet marketers, there are some peculiarities about their mindset that can make them a very annoying business partner. Here are the two that bug me the most.

Long know for their extreme, some say fanatical, adherence to every scintilla of the Can-Spam act, Aweber has been the most stringent about uploading an existing email list to their servers without sending out “ye olde confirmation email.”

Anyone who knows anything about email marketing knows that if you send any existing list a confirmation email your list is going to shrink up like a grape in the sun, and you’ll end up with a raisin in the morning. Now, some will say that you SHOULD prune the list (interesting dried fruit thing going on here – purely unintentional) and that the folks who didn’t want to keep getting email from you who don’t confirm when you move the list are good riddance.

I think that’s stupid and at best willful ignorance.

Email Marketing is All About Timing

Everybody has had the experience of being on a list that you’d ignored for weeks or months – just deleting the updates or the ubiquitous and dirt-stupid “This Won’t Last Long!” obvious affiliate offer subject lines driven by false scarcity IMHBAO. Then one day you happen to see a subject line that sounds interesting or catches your eye. You open the message, are moved to click a link, and voila – you bought something!

And everyone who sends email to their list, whether a newsletter, blog update, or pure offers, has seen someone rise from the dead like Count Dracula and make a purchase. Holy cow, I didn’t know you were even still ALIVE Mr. Used to Be a Happy Blog Commenter / Twitter Chirpster / Facebooke Friendly – and here you are buying my schwag again! Yippie!

Money From Prunes

If you’d have pruned this customer based on open rates, or click-thru statistics you’d have never made the sale, and the buyer would have missed out on the opportunity to get something they wanted. (Ok, I’ll give you that the buyer isn’t really losing out if they never see a particular offer – or are they?) I’m primarily writing this for you and me from the marketer’s perspective.

Everything that happens online is driven by timing. Why do you think a sales letter that at best converts at 2% – 3% loses 98% of the people sho see it. You can run all your Taguchi Split Testing data by me and I’ll continue to insist that anecdotal evidence is that most people online have the attention span of a house fly and that 1000 things can take you away from clicking that buy button.

What Can Distract Someone Online?

  • An inbound text message on their Iphone or cell.
  • A Facebook alert that someone they don’t know just had tuna for lunch.
  • Twitter and all it’s sick and twisted reindeer game apps like Hootsuite.
  • Someone yelling – “come and eat this or I’m throwing it out to the dog!”
  • The dog making a series of “urp-urp-urp” pre-wretching “I’m fixing to vomit” throat sound that can wake even the soundest sleeping human blot upright.
  • Blue screen of death (see Microsoft Windows Support) – Mac users can skip this one.
  • An actual phone call.
  • An actual human visit.

Which brings me in a poorly structured transition to:

The Whole Aweber Stats Obsession Thing

Tom Kulzer - Boy Wonder Founder and CEO of Aweber

Tom Kulzer, founder of Aweber, admitted in an interview that he created the basic sequential autoresponder business at age 12 (okay he was a little older but not much) and it turned into a successful business pretty straightaway. Tom has never had any other business. Tom is brilliant and a super nice young man, but not having had trenchworthy experience in any other business has made him a bit myopic about what his company ought to do/be for the everyday customer.

Their fixation on statistical data and super drill down reports is so thorough and amazing that seriously, I suspect Obama should hire Tom to fix the economy – or at least find out where the $700 Billion Schtimulus money went. But then, Tom has far too much business experience to get a shot at that gig.

But, almost no one I know uses any of that statistical data – ever. Most of us operate Aweber for what we want from it, something to capture emails and let us send broadcast emails when we think up something to send. Frankly, I’ll bet most Aweber accounts don’t even have more than 1 follow up message – failing to use even the auto-responder feature. We know we should use them, but most don’t.

Aweber Bills You For Unsubscribes!

This article began, like most of my rants, on me noticing a disturbance in The Force. My Aweber monthly bill has edged up from $29 to $49 without me doing any major listbuilding activity and I wondered why. Turns out I am being billed for 950 unsubscribes! I called the sales department guy and asked how my tab went up – and he told me I had a list on this account about 1000 people higher than I knew I had.

Why would Aweber charge me for the people who are unsubscribed? Easy, they are getting high on the fumes of the whole statistical thing. The guy actually told me that “some people like to look at that data and figure out which message in their autoresponder got the most unsubscribes.”

Are you kidding me? First, that never even occurred to me and I’ve been making money online for 14 years. Second – I DON’T EVER “like to look at data” and if I ever wrote something that sent the list into an unsubscribe frenzy – prunes away! Good riddance to those people! LOL

Now, THAT’S an unsubscribe – not someone who didn’t even see the new shiny “I’ve moved my list – please please please God click the confirmation link so I can be an Aweber customer too like Ryan Deiss or Perry Belcher?”

Perhaps You Could Tell Me Why You are Charging Me Extra Every Month – Forever?

I asked Mr Helpful if he could delete these deadbeats – repeating my snort that I would never go look at who unsubscribed – much less “enjoy looking at the data.” He said he could and that would save me $20 a month.

But, as for knocking that $20 off my existing bill. No freakin’ way cowboy! We stored that data for you (without asking you or telling you – but charging you) and will that be Visa or Mastercard?

Agree Disagree? Tweet – Facebook and comment below – I’ll reply!


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  • http://www.consultingtycoon.com Kyle Tully

    Hey Rick, had a similar thing happen to me…

    They also count (and charge you for) deactivated lists for 30 days after you deactivate them.

    But those subscribers don’t even show in your dashboard, so you have no idea how many subs you actually have.

  • http://rachaelbutts.com Rachael Butts

    I always liked Aweber until I started seeing a few negative things about them. This is definitely something to consider. I’ve never considered it before since most of my clients have tiny lists when first starting, but I could see this as a huge problem further down the road. Too bad I hate most 3rd party email capture companies also! Idea….Let’s make our own! Maybe there is a government program for it :p Some FREE money.

  • Rick

    Hey Kyle,

    $20 extra isn’t going to kill anyone – but it is kinda funky when you sign up for a $19 a month service to go to $50.

    The point was trying to make here – was that the rep I talked to was dead certain that the unsubscribe data should be counted as “my list” and that this is driven by the data-obsessive mindset of the company.

    If tomorrow you could open up an email list service that worked for honest small business owners who had less than 5000 people to email – and forgot all the bloatware – it would do well.

  • Rick

    Rachael – I agree!

    But, in order to mail from your own server you get into “send mail” volume restrictions and need to setup a chron job etc to keep from getting into hot water with your hosting service.

    Hostgator will throttle those actions – if you get spam complaints they can threaten to shut you down completely.

    There’s no future in spamming – if you are a speaker – author – consultant or coach – and none of us do it.

    Is there an app I can run on my own site (wordpress plugin? LOL) and fight my own battles with blacklists?

  • http://semadvantage.com Kevin Reid

    Rick – sense the sarcasm in having an app to run your own site and fight blacklist battles.

    I’ve got a network admin who handles any blacklist issues that come up – because I know how much you love the techie stuff, you’ve made the right decision to stay out of that line of work.

    Our ISP service has a customer, who happens to be a nun who sends out about 2500 emails a DAY! Yeah, that sets a few alerts off every time.

  • Rick

    Dude! Kevin Reid!

    No, I’m serious. I’d love to be able to just run all this stuff on my own site.

    I have a nice app to do that (paid like $300 for it) but it requires me to have a dedicated server – recommended by Kirt Christensen.

    Would I really have that many things to deal with re: spam complaints for the speaker author marketing things I do on RickButts.com ?

  • http://www.embracinghome.com/baby/ Eren Mckay

    Hi Rick,
    I think it’s absurd that they are charging you for data that you didn’t want to have anyways. Just plain wrong. I hope they change their minds and refund your money. Definitely going to tweet and facebook this.
    All the best,
    Eren

  • http://www.irepnetwork.com/blog Linda Stacy

    Am I missing something here? You can delete unsubscribes. Maybe not ideal, but it’s a solution. Surely you can find someone to clean your list for you for a one-time $20.

  • http://www.irepnetwork.com/blog Linda Stacy

    Oops! Sorry…Just saw the part of your post where you say AWeber cleaned the list for you. Guess it was the surprise that was the problem. Guess I always knew that they don’t automatically delete unsubs so I’m not surprised. They probably should be more upfront about about it. Perhaps they could even automatically send an email when someone’s approaching the new price point. No one likes surprises that cost them money!

  • http://www.ricklomas.com Rick Lomas

    Hi Rick, how’s it going? I must get over the pond sometime and meet up again. Anyway, my gripe with this subject is as follows:
    When you delete your unsubscribed, you have to display all subscribers with stop status=unsubscribed, then by default it will display 20 results – you can change this to 100, but that is not good enough, 1000 would be better. To make things worse, when you select them all and delete them, the filter changes back to stop status=subscribed, so you have to watch who you are deleting as it is quite easy to delete your loyal following. I asked Aweber to fix this 2 years ago, they said they would, but they never did.
    Unfortunately autoresponders are even harder to change than hosting, so once you make your decision you are stuck with them.
    Aweber have been great otherwise with me though.

  • Rick

    Wow Rick – what you said is really good – except I don’t understand a single word of it. But I wish they’d have fixed the thing that you said they should have fixed back then but didn’t – though I’m not sure why. 8-)

    When the guy told me that he couldn’t refund the additional fee – I said – we’ll – have you got a different answer in there?

    He said no – was there anything else he could do for me.

    I said, well, I am in business too and I just wouldn’t treat my customers this way when it would be really easy to do things like:

    * be flexible
    * think long term value of your customer

    instead of managing a rule book.

  • http://www.ricklomas.com Rick Lomas

    ooops, “except I don’t understand a single word of it” – maybe that’s why it never got fixed!

  • http://ross-goldberg.com Ross

    Seriously Rick – thanks for this reminder.

    I had nearly 7,000 unsubscribes from the last 2 years that were just sitting there costing me money every month.

    Ross

  • Rick

    Thanks Ross – Really appreciate you slumming by and leaving a comment here on my little ol’ blog!

    Am I right about how little we use the deep stats features of Aweber?

  • http://www.ryanhealy.com Ryan Healy

    Having used a variety different email systems (including iContact, ARP3, 1SC, Goldbar, etc.), I still really like Aweber. That said, there are a couple things that don’t make a whole lot of sense:

    1. Charging for unsubscribes.

    2. Sending confirmation emails to imported lists that are ALREADY double opt-in verified. (I lost a good chunk of a list this way.)

    3. Disallowing a person to re-subscribe to a list using the same email they used in the past.

    I’m not sure, but deleting unsubscribes may solve this last problem.

    Ryan

    P.S. I haven’t used the stats much at all, but I hope to at some point. :-)

  • http://MyFabulousVA.com Rebekah Zobel Jones

    Let me start out by saying I have a tiny list. However, I’m also a stat-loving zombie. Do I understand what all those numbers been and how they contribute to my bottom line? Not a clue. But I get all excited when I see subscriber numbers rise, open counts rise, click-throughs rise, etc.

    And while the double opt-in bugs me at times (you CAN turn it off on a per list basis), as a consumer it’s ok ’cause I’d rather confirm my interest in some information than have folks passing my email out to whomever.

    Migrating lists is AWFUL… I think those who say “it’s good to prune” are trying to find the silver lining in the cloud of unsubscribes.

    Why do I use Aweber? ’cause I didn’t want a shopping cart when I started my business and $19/mo is a heck of a lot cheaper than $59+.

    Why do I stay with Aweber? ’cause until they come out with a better solution, it’s the best one I’ve found. Sure it has quirks, but the other options have more.

    ~R

  • http://www.consultingtycoon.com Kyle Tully

    Hey Rick

    Yeah I still love Aweber and have a couple of accounts with them. And an extra $20 ain’t gonna kill anyone. But like you I think for a company that’s so set on stats they seriously need to rethink how they calculate certain things.

    Kyle

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  • http://www.colincopy.com Colin

    Hey Rick et al.

    Charging for “unsubscribes” is a sneaky way to make money… HOWEVER, the reason you want to keep your unsubscribes is in the event you EVER rent an e-mail list, you must provide the broker with your list of opt-outs so that you comply with CAN-SPAM laws. That’s why your database should have a list of unsubscribes on file.

    I couldn’t figure this out either until I started working with a database analysis and list brokering company.

    Colin

  • Rick

    Thanks Ryan, Rebecca, and Colin! I hadn’t thought about the unsubscribes as part of your list management if you ever rent it out – but I’m never going to rent my list out.

    Rebecca, you are right in that Aweber is full featured and a good value.

    I used Icontact for a while and they were easier to use, less complex, and they let you combine lists.

    Aweber not allowing for list merging is based on the way they “store the data” that pesky data I have no use for – and they say they preserve optin data that way.

    I think that should be an option I should be able to waive.

    Hey, if someone has been on my list for 2 years, how big a worry is the IP they subscribed with?

    Maybe I’m more fussy about this because I don’t do mass marketing – and don’t do anything that is going to incur many spam complaints.

    If you don’t remember asking for email from someone named Butts – well – bless your heart!

  • http://www.shopping-cart-reviews.com/blog Mark

    Maintaining a list is critical. It’s just denial to say “we have 20,000 people” when 8,000 are inactive.

  • http://www.emaildelivered.com Heather

    Another thing to note… you are also being charged for each instance of your subscribers. In other words, if you have one subscriber on 3 lists, they count 3 times towards billing. Likewise, for bounces (not just unsubscribes).

    Bounces are just subscribers for one reason or another can no longer receive email from you. After a certain number of failed attempts, they are no longer mailed to – EVER again, but they remain in your account and you are charged for them.

    So… while you may want to keep unsubscribes for list management purposes, you simply need to delete your bounces and certainly shouldn’t be charged multiple times for the same subscriber.

    Plus, Aweber doesn’t clearly explain the bounces and there are often false positives. Your list maintenance really isn’t quite what you expect it to be, so just be very watchful and pay close attention. Also note that deliverability is not always what the “numbers” indicate. There’s no way to drill down and see what exactly is going on so you’re left taking their word for it.

    NOTE: Many of these practices are not exclusive to aweber. Many 3rd party providers follow similar practices.

  • http://www.marketingforsuccess.com Charlie Cook

    Hey Rick, not only do I not look at unsubscribes I don’t even touch our aweber account but I was wondering about the ever increasing bill.

    Thanks to an alert assistant, who is on the profit share plan and saw her bonus check going to aweber instead of her, she pointed out this nutty charge by aweber and now spends a total of 2-3 minutes a month just deleting the unsubscribes and saving good money.

  • http://killmycubicle.com Tracy

    Thanks for this post. Just went through and deleted all my unsubscribes.

    This was easy because I used the ‘view segment’ button under search subscribers, and checked ‘unsubscribed’ for the people, then erased all.

    A pain, and irritating to have to do it, but at least it isn’t totally manual. What a dumb policy. They should definitely have given you back your 20 bucks.

  • http://fitting-the-pieces.com Richard Goutal

    Our mastermind group was having the forever discussion of which AR service is best so I found this discussion enlightening. I have to say though that one of our members (who uses Aweber) insisted that he has a list and it does not require a double opt in. Yet everything I have read about their service insists that every Aweber list owner must have a double opt-in (or confirmation) when new people join their list from an opt in form. Rebekah mentioned that you can turn it off on a per list basis. So I must say I am totally surprised. I use MailChimp and like it. They and other AR services allow importing a list taken from another opt-in source (like GoToWebinar for example) with another confirmation.