12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

You're awesome!

Actually, I was wondering myself that question yesterday after hearing so much about Traffic Secrets 2.0 and questioning if there was really any information left that hasn't already been shared in one form or another via various mediums (a lot of them free).

I love John Reese but I'm going to pass on this one for now. I'm sure he's got some killer information in there, but my head won't explode if I don't buy it, even though some people want you to believe so.

Cassies last blog post..Thwirl versus TweetDeck

That's actually a good point Cassie. I'm SURE there's some good information in there.

There's also some excellent information all over the web but you get to keep your 4 $100 bills in your pocket.

At this point - the reality is - are we using what we already know from social marketing, linking, writing articles, before we invest in more knowledge on the subject?

Traffic generation just takes some ideas and time.

Thanks!
Rick

Shucks!

I should've named my published book "Secrets of Online Persuasion" something sexier like "Traffic Whore" eh? Shucks!

Hey - wait a minute… you're not calling ME a whore for having the 1st published book on social / new media marketing - are you?!

http://snipurl.com/sophardcover

hmmmm… rethinking friendship w/ @Rick_Butts

Absolutely hilarious Rick! I don't have anything bad to say about John Reese, but people can find a lot of stuff for FREE and that's the truth.

I laced my affiliate links with AIDS and Herpes!

And NO BONUSES! Screw bonuses!

J-Mo

rick butts does it again

big jason top affiliate challenge whores last blog post..New WordPress Theme for Top Affiliate Challenge

Rick

Re your list of IM whores.

On your Website Traffic Lab you mention Colin McDougall’s Constant Conversation being a great resouce for getting tons of traffic and it, too, is FREE. Yes, I agree - his VEO is a very wise and future proof approach, and I have also actually followed this advice.

But I also just had an email from him extolling the virtues of TrafficSecrets2.

No-one is immune you see.

A man after my own heart, Rick, you say what everyone else feels and is thinking. I get so p**ssed off with these whores.
They don't actually care too much about the product really - just their 50% cut of the profits.

In March 2007 I got so fed up of the constant barrage of emails for the same product from different marketers that I blogged about it and got a very warm response. Rick, if it's OK with you, here is a link to the archive of those posts which make for entertaining reading.

You are not on your own with your opinion of how things are online right now
http://www.michaelsherriff.com/blog/category/stop-pitching-at-me/

Michael

Michael Sherriffs last blog post..New Affiliate Show Pro Software

Shocking language Rick. I might be offended if it wasn't so funny…and true.

I won't be buying either, and I agree with you that Jack Humphrey rocks!

Mark McCullaghs last blog post..Save Time Blogging With New Content Creation Software

Rick, agree in concept. But must disagree on the terms.

The subjects you target are not "whores." That would imply they are victims. They are known as "List Pimps."

List Pimps are one of the more nefarious members of the Black Triad. Dangerous, abusive, and full of empty promises their job is to whore YOU (as their subscriber) out for their profit and pleasure.

The Black Triad: spot em', stomp em', & win in your business by knowing thine enemy http://snipurl.com/blacktriad

@JPmicek

Looks like this is gonna be Whore Week here on the RickButts.com blog.

I didn't name anyone - for a reason.

YOU have to decide who fits the description here.

On the Website Traffic Lab website I've listed Colin McDougall's free Constant Conversaton ebook - and it was pointed out to me that Colin was promoting John Reese's course.

This is part of the great paradox.

Howie Schwartz is promoting John's course - and I follow Howie closely and he has already put out tons of great information, courses, and tools for getting traffic.

I'm hardly immune to promoting someone's products for a profit, but when these giant launch days go down with TONS of bonus wars - it's hard not to wonder what is really going on?

Rick

Rick,

I really wish you wouldn't have put ME in the center of your next hurricane!

For the record, until this post anyway, me and John are buds. My link for this comment points to one of my TS2 posts on Friday Traffic Report.

I think what people need to do to weigh this launch is 2 things:

1. Look at John's track record and the respect he commands around the web and the material included in this version of Traffic Secrets and decide for themselves, as John wants you to, if the course is right for them and their experience level.

2. Decide which "whore" is going to get your money for buying if you decide to buy. This is accomplished, I believe, by going through the affiliate link you think deserves the credit. I am almost positive John is using "last cookie" which means the last person to send you gets the credit.

Big launches and the value of John's product are two different things and should be considered separately in my opinion.

I might have one myself one day!

Dear Rick,

I'm certain any product John Reese puts out there will have valuable info., besides he's kinda cute.

But you have really won my heart with your comment . . . "Does this course contain real "secrets" or, is it possible, I can learn everything I need to learn, at a pace I can actually absorb and implement it - another way, for less money or free?"

I also love all the info I've gotten over the last year from Jack Humphrey, but I wish I'd learned sooner 1)FREE info is available on the internet, and 2) Buying and paying for training, good or bad, does me absolutely NO GOOD if it's just downloaded to my 'puter and never used.

Even though I'm a technically-inept, drowning-in-an-information-backlog, wannabe internet millionaire, I finally figured-out that all these big launches are just too much too soon. They can't ALL be as fabulous as they are reputed to be.

Thanks for saying it like it is! Now I can stop wondering where I'll ever find $397 to learn from the "Master" (who really is cute)!

Sincerely,
Brennan

Brennan Kingslands last blog post..Education Excellence ~ Someday Soon!

John Reese is more than cute - he's a buff stud muffin who's rich and famous (infamous?) and touring Europe while this launch runs on autopilot.

Kudos!

He's also a brilliant student of the game of Internet marketing and imminently qualified to talk about all phases of Internet marketing.

My basic yap here is the relentless whoring out of bonuses to get you to buy something so the sender can make a buck - combined with the whole launch hype.

What is really interesting is that the stuff in Traffic Secrets 1.0 is so powerful that I use technqiues from it every day as part of my fundamental approach to marketing online.

Rick

Hey Rick,

It's rare that I get on board with the Big Gun Guru marketers….

John Reese's Traffic Secrets 2.0 is one of those rare occassions….

What I find refreshing about John is the fact that his affiliate manager sent me a digital version of the course…

That is bloody rare with the guru club and….

from sounds of things from John's affiliate manager that this product will actually be on the market and for sale without the scarcity tactic of the "doors are slamming shut"

Anyway I do really like John's offer with Traffic Secrets 2.0….

No…I personally didn't find anything earth-shattering in the product but it is certainly useful information for those that need to learn the business…

Well back to being a marketing whore….or am I a marketing pimp….whatever the case….back to making some cash

Well Rick,

I have to say I'm not surprised. This afternoon I predicted someone would take this shot. I was commenting about it on Mark Ress's Ustream.tv show this afternoon. Good Luck with your efforts, this will certainly bring the Backlinks out of the woodwork.

I am surprised that you didn't know that John has priced this offering at $397, which is $600 less than the original 1.0 version. That's exactly the "couple of hundred dollars" you mentioned. Considering it will probably contain updated materials on things from V1, it should be worth that much,especially to anybody who didn't purchase V1.

Now I'm not saying to buy this or even if it's a good deal, just trying to provide my fair analysis. There are many people searching for answers in this market. Just as there are many, many good people freely giving of themselves and their experience, you included. The responses above reflect a few of them, Jack Humphrey, J.P. Micek and Coachdeb (Deborah Cole Micek) are aeasy to spot. I'm sure others will chime in with their comments, like Sherman Hu, Mark Ress, Michelle Trent, Ed Dale, Isabella Murphy (nichelady)and a bunch more. (sorry if I left you off the list, whoever.)

As for where the money will flow to, hopefully to all of us. People genuinely need Internet Marketing information, and those that can afford to pay for it, there are many options. Yes some victimize the unwary, but even that kind of learning has always been around. Its known as "The School of Hard Knocks." There will always be some who feel there is no other way. Also there will be some who feel if it doesn't cost tons, its worthless.

My opinion is free, no strings attached. Wonder what it's really worth?

Get Your Name On!

Mike

http://twitter.com/mike1mb

Mike Cunninghams last blog post..How Freddie/Fannie Fallout Could Affect Main Street - NYTimes.com

Your title is a little misleading Rick. I sort of
expected to see a list of 12 names.

I've actually gone trough a training guide that
covered much of the materials in the course, and
like TS 1, it's an encyclopedia (catalog) of
techniques, with some fairly detailed instructions.

Granted, everything is not news to me, but there
is enough new ideas that I feel comfortable
recommending TS 2, and even offering a bonus. I
assume that not everyone is adept at the
social networking sites and other methods of
traffic generation as I am.

Jack does put out some incredible information.

willie

As always Rick you've thrown a stick at the hornets nest. I never know whether to value these types of stirrings as more link bait or something of actual value.
Of course you're saying what a lot of folks are feeling. Good for you for stepping up to the plate.
Fact of the matter is folks, you signed up to somebodies list in exchange for information. If you don't like the fact that you signed up for marketing information and "secrets" and this marketer is actually marketing to you, OMG, then go to the bottom of the email, unsubscribe and carry on with your life.
If people would spend their time learning and putting into actual practice some of the free information available all over the interwebs, there would be much less whining.
Just one man's opinion.

Paul McIntoshs last blog post..Thirty Day Challenge Resumes

Rick just LOVES to stir the controversy.

Never, of course, would I dare do such a thing.

Putting John Reese personally aside, I want to take this opportunity to whisper a message to all these big-time internet millionaires who no longer flood my inbox.

Please… do not condescend to me and say in your "news" (marketing) letters that you give one rat's patootie about me and my business. Go ahead and be honest. Use this copy instead: (You have my permission.)

Hey Sucker,
I was sitting here scratching my balls and drooling over my bank account. I have ten Mercedes and you don't. (I hope you at least have a loaf of bread.) Check out my new eBook, "B.S SECRETS EXPOSED!"

OK, I'm being snotty and sarcastic again.

Sorry. I really can NOT help myself. It's late.

Rick, we need to talk.

Lorraine Grulas last blog post..Revver.Com: A Video Sharing Site That Shares the Profits Too.

@Lorraine - LOL! I can't believe you actually wrote "I was sittin' here scratchin' my BLEEP! LOL I'm seriously falling out of my chair laughing!

It does illustrate the casual nature of the "SEND" (incl + affiliate link) as a non-thought for cash reward.

@Willie Crawford - I KNOW you expected to see a list of 12 names - and maybe we will actually generate such a list.

The main idea was that there actually are about 12 of the worst offenders - we can all make our own lists.

ONCE AGAIN: it's the nature of the marketing methodology and the unabashadly shameful trotting out of bonuses to capture a buck from the same flock that irks me - not John's course.

Rick

I concur with Johnathan. I hate getting the same message from different marketers, cyber litter bugs, I call them. I don't know if the stuff that they are selling is last years revamped products or not.
I'm on my own and picking up tidbits here and there.
Diane
http://tracersrusGBG.businesscard2.com
http://tracersrusblog.businesscard2.com
http://tracersrusSendOut.businesscard2.com
http://tracersrusPrePaid.businesscard2.com

I'm so glad I was able to amuse you sir!

It's always a risk of offending people when you try to be funny so let me say FOR THE RECORD, I have no doubt John's product is full of incredible info.

There are MANY internet marketers that I greatly admire.

I, however, insist upon being incorrigible despite an actual brain that often tell me to pipe down!

Lorraine Grulas last blog post..Revver.Com: A Video Sharing Site That Shares the Profits Too.

I can't say I'm opposed to a product that teaches these "secrets" but totally agree that there aren't many secrets if you've been around a while.

John Reese does sell to a market of people who have never seen all the great stuff you teach, or really been an online business. So if someone buys this, implements whatever he teaches, I'm sure it's far more valuable that many other things they could do with the money.

However, the hype by the in crowd with whatever "new Internet Secret of the Week" comes out gets overblown in the search for short term profits.. and makes me wonder what they would do to get steady traffic, leads and sales if they weren't playing this game.

Would a real business pay out 50$ on every product they introduce? There are better ways.

Rick, thank you SO MUCH. Everything that you said here is so much true!

Hey Rick

couldn't agree more with what you said especially…

"Does the person sending this to me actually give a darn how I come up with the money for this "must have" product - and whether it truly has a positive impact on my success - or if it is just another big box of stuff I will not be able to digest - putting me further behind in my goals?"

And I made this comment just new from being a victim of another high priced "mentoring" program which I am not allowed to ask questions and where questions are answered with, "Do you want to make money or not?" and "I have clients who paid me $50,000 and happy"…

Any attempt to ask questions will be rebutted with, "just follow my instructions and do what I say"…

I recently posted in my blog why people get 'scammed' and I think one of the reasons is fear. Fear of not having this information that may just transform their life.

Sorry for the rant as I had a really bad day fighting with the so called mentor. I had a good feeling I am kissing my hard earned money goodbye.

Why is it that people never learn from bad purchases???

When I first read this, there was 0 comments. Now I come back and boom. So where does the 12 whores come into this? Do you mean 12 affiliates or are you going to do 12 posts?

The part about John changing his mind on SM is a good point but like you say things and people change and like all things on the net it seems to happen at lightening speeds.

Wonder how many you'll get for this one Rick

My favorite comment?
Jack Humphreys

Now, let's get down and dirty.

You said:
nternet marketing whores dressed in skimpy outfits (shocking subject lines)

Oh, you mean like,
"12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing"?

I'm still trying to figure out who the 12 are — but maybe the inconsistency of your statement to your actions (headline, as stated above) blinded me to them. (Hey, I'll admit to being pulled by your headline.)

Now, was there, um, satisfaction when I got here?

Delivery on the promise?

Or is it just a way to slipstream into all the hoopla on John's promotion.

It's not a bad technique (riding the slipstream) — but to point fingers at the person who is unintentionally bringing you this traffic is a bit disingenuous, don't you think?

I mean, if all your traffic techniques are so wonderful, why are you resorting to this sort of controversy to stir up more?

Surely, at the end of your free information, there's a market funnel? Listbuilding? You surely would be a poor marketer, in my estimation, not to do so.

What's the problem with people offering bonuses? I don't get it.

Now — yes, it would be poor form if a marketer offered again what they promised to never offer again. I admit to not being a careful peruser of people's offers at the moment. But usually I believe the offers read something like "I've never offered this before." (And if I hear Jeff Walker use that phrase one more time it will drive me to distraction, LOL. Luv ya Jeff, but it's da twuth.)

If people want to read my blog, they can check it out at my site at NextDay-Copy.com (actually, I have 2; one for copywriting and one for Ed Dale's 30 Day Challenge.) I'm here to make a comment, not to get a backlink.

Hey Folks,

Rick certainly is doing a great job on creating conversations….

Lorraine - I sense a touch of bitterness to your post… Don't be bitter but rather observe those that make lots of cash and consider those emails as some free email marketing training…

The tactics used by the "gurus" are a fabulous marketing lessons…

Now if you take the same tactics and use them in marketing to industries (that are not so bitter and jaded) other than internet business stuff you will be thrilled with the results…

I always find it somewhat amusing that people will spend $10's or $100's of thousands on university education but when it comes to learning how to make piles of cash on the internet for less than $400 bucks there is such resistance and lashback over it….

Come on folks that's an incredibly CHEAP education!!!

OK… I gotta go have a scratch now

[...] waiting for 10 or 15,000 emails to arrive flogging Traffic Secrets 2.0,  Voice of Reason Rick Butts takes on the super-affiliate army pitching legend John Reese's latest bag of [...]

So Rick,

Did I get this right: It's ok to sell a load of crap if it's only a couple of hundred bucks and/or if your heart is pure?

Maybe there's a moral balance in offering a worthwhile bonus with a questionable product. (or vice versa.)

Steve Markowskis last blog post..Rick Butts Bitch Slaps Product Launch

Wow. Sorry Rick, but I really do think you should review the course before you make such specific comments about it. I am - in fact, here's picture proof:

http://www.clicknewz.com/img/traffic-secrets-review.jpg

(That's me, the binder being the transcripts for the TS2 videos)

Traffic Secrets 2.0 is not just an info-product packed with your usual traffic techniques that will be "outdated by December". You’ll get lifetime updates to the course, private coaching & mastermind community access, the web-based action tracker system and more. So you are investing in “direct access” to John Reese and in your business long-term.

Granted, its not for everyone. Its not for the person who cant take the *time* to invest in the course - and the time to also take action on what they learn from it. In my opinion, its also not for someone who doesnt yet have a website, or hasnt chosen their niche market yet.

I'm trying to make those points loud and clear in my review of TS2. And I am offering no bonuses. I've always given honest reviews (and plenty of negative ones, at that) and tried to help my readers make the right decision for *them*.

I am a seasoned internet marketer, and have been working online almost as long as John Reese (12th year) — and while I know much of what he covers, I've gotten great value out of the course already.

I'm with you on some points, mind you. You might recall my recent post titled The Current State of Internet Marketing. Just wanted to clarify a few points regarding my stance, and the course itself.

Rick

I love it. Myself, if I see a whore offering a condo on Maui or a black Hummer as a bonus, will actually consider becoming a John. Other than that, I just ignore the inbox glut that comes with these launches.

Whores take notice. Better spell out the condo or Hummer in your subject line, or I'll miss it. I'm driving real fast down your boulevard, and it will take a very sexy outfit to get me to slow down.

@Lorraine can we be friends? I love your imagination.

2 years ago there was a similar launch and that made me unsubscribe from all the lists.
I got tired of seeing the same text and "buy - buy".

The products are probably fine but I am doing well without them.

Btw Rick you write Christmas 2007 you mean 2008?
Do I win a prize, the first to notice it ?

Susanne Fs last blog post..Do you Get Trans Fat Without Knowing It?

Why?

You're unabashedly link baiting to keep your blog alive.

When you step back and look at it in the broadest terms,
you are just another sooted pot then; waving your IM arms to make a buck, while calling the kettle black.

Hmmm there was a bible story about a tainted crowd member pointing out the whore…

Do you really want sensationalized negative controversy
to be your legacy, or even the defibrillator for your blog?

Mr Butts, I have tough standards:
I've promoted 3 items in 3 years.
(No bonuses-I am helpful instead)

But there are some very excellent people who will offer
bonuses, whom you're insulting.

Good Health to You,
Ed

Rick,

You and I both know that its time for the final solution!

I personally don't care what happens and I'm ready for the ultimate scorched earth strategy, and you know what I mean!

My fortune will not come from the pockets of Internet Marketers, so I say we Push The Big Red Button and do them all a favor and take down every gravity suit wearing pig in the process.

Poison Pill time baby!

Hell I'll do it just for shits and giggles!

Ready…………..?

Let's launch it now!

MUUUhhaaahhaahahhaa

Hmm… should I change specialities and offer the cure for digital AIDS, instead?

Nice. I already have the cred in the IM niche!

Hmm… Maybe I'll even ask the Gates Foundation for a grant

All success
Dr.Mani

P.S. Hey, Rick, I hope you aren't including those who are promoting "Safe
'Traffic Secrets' Sex" in your rant?!

P.P.S. Reading carefully, you'll notice Rick's NOT against TS2 - he's against
those hyping it to the sky and lacing their affiliate offer with ridiculous
bonuses! (Just pointing it out, in case anyone missed it)

P.P.P.S. - Uh-oh, just noticed Rick had clarified that in an earlier comment!
Oh well, bears repeating anyway.

Trust me Colin dear, I am the LEAST bitter person on the planet.

I just like to point out the absurdities before us. And there are many! I become dizzy watching it all!

Marketing is something many people love to hate but it's the cornerstone of our world. FOR EXAMPLE: We've all poked fun at the ginzu knife commercials, but the dude made a bloody fortune. However, I'm not going waste two minutes watching the slicing and dicing demo for the zillionth time.

I've got better things to do.

One could argue that the 12 biggest whores of internet marketing are really the twelve hardest working, best connected and most successful internet marketers.

The point is, marketing is hype. Hype gets old. Tons of hype gets really old. Wasting time reading redundant hype is not a good way to run a business. You'll never get anything productive done.

I, for one, am a slut. Not a whore. Sluts don't get paid. And because I offered my bonus to EVERYONE who buys John's course …regardless of which link they use, I am not getting paid.

Therefore, slutty and proud.

rick I forgot to commend you for Iceberg Slim reference. Well done.

Did you hear about the 2 Mexicans that walked into a bar to order Traffic Secrets?

Really, you didn't hear?

Seriously, you didn't hear?

Well, check my blog for the full scoop!

J-Mo

Jason Moffatts last blog post..Two Mexicans Order Traffic Secrets 2.0

Of course my dear! I love making friends.

A warm connection, a smile and a hug are what gives life sparkle.

Sparkle keeps us alive and smiling!

I'm honored to share cyber sparkle with you!

Lorraine Grulas last blog post..Revver.Com: A Video Sharing Site That Shares the Profits Too.

Judging by the comments here - I make the following observations:

1 - Many people scan a blog post without reading it - and comment on what they infer it to mean - inaccurately. It's tough to respond to a comment about what was not said in the first place.

2 - Some people read every word and over-analyze the meaning and inject their inferences all the same.

3 - Some people understand that as Freud once said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." I love these people.

4 - Some people are confused because there is no list of 12 names. I was hoping my smarter readers would pick up on the irony.

5 - Some people are so darn clever that can make hilariously funny, and fun, journeys out of my recklessness.

This includes today's winners:

* Moffatt and Kern, a dandy presidential ticket if you ask me

* Lorraine Grula - a woman who actually had an Ebay ad on her blog, for a turd that had a striking resemblance to Dick Cheney's face. Is that "stink bait?"

* Dr. Mani - proving that you don't have to be a Southern Causasian to take a pun and run with it!

*** To all my dear doubting readers who think I'm a one-trick-pony who racks my brain each day for a way to manufacture link bait from the latest launch, 2 thoughts:

A. I really do simply make observations on the "parade" in front of me - as you can probably tell by the posts and videos no one comments on.

B. If you CAN get people to comment a lot on your blog - isn't that kind of the point?

Love to all - and to all a good night,
Rick

hmmmm…. if I buy something from a guru (whore)… that makes me a John??

I don't look like a John… I don't feel like a John… I don't walk like a John… I don't even scratch by [non existent] brass ones…

So, in reality… I am not a John.

I have, in fact, been a John many times. Here is the ugly truth:

In the beginning the bonuses and the hype and the fear of loss work. (on the John's of the world) Why? Because, they have not yet been jaded.

In the end, (I don't care how much you defend your whore-selves) it will come back to bite you in the butt. (Yup… I probably intended that pun)

You know who you are. We may have signed up to "get your information", but we did not sign up so that we could feel like a dumb John.

The fact that you don't "really" care that we think the bonus hype, the fear of loss hype, the never told secrets hype and the "I"m so rich hype", is B.S. - just irritates me.

So… go ahead and defend yourselves. Give away all your great free content. Tell all of us to stop trying to sell to the IM industry and to go after the "unprepared" niches.

There are bonus products and then there are really good bonus products. But… do I really need a bonus? Why isn't the product good enough to sell on it's own?

Oh… I know, it's worked so well before… why wouldn't you just keep doing it?

Do I give bonus products? Yes… I give bonuses when someone purchase one of my products. Am I a marketing whore? Nope. I don't sell OPP by laying on the sugar and piling up bonuses.

I give my own bonus with my own product, because I know it's of high value to the consumer.

If I think someone else's product is good enough to promote to my list… they will buy the product (or not) based on my recommendation. Not because I blew sunshine up their……

Debra THAT Public Domain Divas last blog post..Why Would Anything Old Enough To Be In The Public Domain Be Worth Anything Today?

The value of whores.

This conversation assumes whores are BAD. I contend nothing in life is all good or all bad and the hypocrisies of conventional wisdom and stereotypes are easily revealed.

For example, we often judge success by money earned. So if whores are "bad" why do whores make significantly more $$$ than virtuous schoolteachers?

So answer me that one huh?

Does this mean the free market says sex is more valued than intellectualism? Help, the sordid facts have thrown me even deeper into the cynicism abyss!!!!

Lorraine Grulas last blog post..Revver.Com: A Video Sharing Site That Shares the Profits Too.

Hey Gang,

It's 1:30 am here in Denver and I'm off to bed.

For some reason the blog (semiologic pro) is not allowing any posts to post unless I approve them.

So until I re-emerge around 11 am MST today - your posts will probably queue up - but fear not - I vow to leave no post behind!

Your strange little friend,
Rick

PS: Stumble, Tweet, or otherwise bookmark or link to me and shoot me a note about it - I'll follow you around like a love-crazed puppy!

That bastard John (yes, the Sweetie said bastard…after all, when in Rome…hey wait, isn't John in Rome??!) isn't giving out any prizes to his affiliates.

As a whoring insider, I can tell you this launch is very low key. He's giving us the nuts and bolts. Those are going all wild giving away their children, wives and zillion dollar software and seminar recordings are doing it all on their own volition.

Thanks for keeping the product-crazed IM public in check, Rick.

Alice Sebas last blog post..Complete Traffic Secrets 2.0 Review

Rick,

Nicely done; plays into a lot of human emotions and general feelings around the Internet – which is certainly reflected by the number of comments from “big-fish” names.

First, I echo something Jack Humphrey and Dr. Mani already mentioned – the need to separate the quality of John’s product from the constant barrage of big launches. (this was for the careless readers who missed this - but somehow got to reading the 1027 comment to the original post ;-))

And while I agree with you that most information on traffic can be found for free (or nearly free) with a bit of research, I have to say there is huge value in having it conveniently organized in one cohesive course – just the value of time saved searching for this info alone is probably worth the price.

In terms of secrets… Well, everything is a secret to us – until we learn it. Here is my (slightly different than yours) take on this – John is known to test things like crazy. The guy lives to apply, analyze, tweak, and apply again different marketing strategies. So if I can get the discoveries based on thousands of hours of his research and testing and experience condensed into one course for a few hundred bucks – that’s a pretty reasonable deal. I think I would have to an absolute idiot not to find at least one thing in there - even if it’s just a new take on an old strategy – that I haven’t thought of before and will be able to use and get more than my money’s worth.

But what really gets me is today’s general attitude of “victimhood” most people buy into (and your post plays into it too!) I get sick and tired of people complaining all the time about being (over)promoted too – especially after they 1) originally opted into the lists with a pretty darn good idea that they will be sent promotions (why else would it be free!?), and 2) have an opt-out link at the bottom of each email.

Instead of groaning and moaning about how the marketers get rich by pitching you all the time on all the “newest and latest must have info and tools” why not simply stop supporting them? Instead of getting all pissed off and raising hell about “market molesters” (sorry, Coach Deb, it’s just such a great term to use here) why not simply remove them from your inboxes and giving them another red cent of your money?

Whatever happened to personal discernment? Do the marketers have some sort of magic potion that makes everyone buy crap they don’t need? Last I checked there isn’t a system out there yet that automatically whisks credit cards out of your wallet while you’re are asleep – or did I miss out on this new gizmo? Because on all my sites someone has to actually punch in the credit numbers to make the purchase. And, I’m assuming (maybe incorrectly) that since they have that credit card they also have a brain – and ability to make independent decisions.

Oh, one more thing… Just as a total disclosure… I don’t own Johns’ TS2 and I’m not promoting it. Frankly, I probably won’t even buy it because it’s not something I’m looking for right now.

Oh yeah, there is one other thing…I grossly oversimplified and generalized some pretty complex ideas here… But hey – so did your original post. After all, that’s what sells… OK, now I guess I better press “post” before reading this, regretting I ever wrote this, and deleting the whole thing… because it’s all for the sake of being devil’s advocate here.

Thanks, Rick, for stimulating this discussion… and I’m still looking for the 12 whores! Oh, and did you mention cigars? Where?

Smiles,
Adam

To Adam Urbanski (above)

Hey Adam, thanks for your well thought out comment.

I want to reply on one issue you mentioned - because I think it invites me to clarify and I didn't think of this until now.

"victimhood - and complaining about being marketed to"

Your point is well taken - and I am leading the complaints.

I think that if I could state this all another way - it would be like this.

Dear Marketing Kingpin,

Yes, I got on your list because you offered me something for (free?) that required me to give you my email address and confirm you could.

I realize that you would market to me - and I'm cool with that.

I just would like to ask you to treat me with respect, and cut out the B.S. - and really think twice about what you send me.

Don't mail me every day.

Try including some good content without making me optin to yet another list - remember - we're already communicating?

And please PLEASE if you are going to give away that pricey product I bought a few months ago - to your new friends - just for buying your buddy's product now - consider how that makes me feel?

And maybe, try reading 1000 True Fans and think long term instead of just about delivery rates, open rates, conversion rates, and unsubscribe rates.

Thanks sincerely,

Your List

Rick, I was about to hit the sack but I noticed your response and just had to read it!

Holy crap. I think it's better than the original post (at last for me) because it exposes the real problem. Frankly, your last comment should be a required reading (and discussion topic) for all budding online entrepreneurs (especially affiliate marketers ;-))

Hey Folks,

When I wrote my free marketing report entitled "Constant Conversation" and yeah, my upsell to "Cashflow Conversation" I quoted the one and only Rick Butts in both books about creating online conversations….

Notice the number of comments Rick generates???

Yeah, there are always tons of comments on his blog….

Why?

Because Rick is a BRILLIANT guy….

Now come on…. Please… Oh please come comment in my blog

Yes, Rick does stir controversy….

But…

Rick DOES NOT stir controversy for the sake of controversy….

I have stayed at Rick's house and had some of the most amazing conversations with him….

Rick is WAY smarter than anybody gives him credit for…

If you doubt Rick Butts brilliance I suggest that you grab a copy of his book right now….

I have been reading The Safari Chronicles Volume One from Rick and have to say it is VERY thought provoking….

Rick you ROCK my friend….

Oh yeah……I will very likely be in Denver at the latest in December to see the Broncos Vs. Bills….

Interesting story there… I used to be a Bills fan…

I let that go as last season as my father was passing away from Leukemia was a Green Bay fan…. I briefly jumped on board to cheer with my Dad for the Green Bay Packers….

OK…No need to bore you all with my personal pangs….

But, I did let go of the Buffalo Bills as I spent the last night of my father's life watching the Green Bay Packers and my father's football hero, Brett Favre, take a Monday Night game on the last drive…..

Yeah… I saw my father cheer in a very weak voice for Brett as he threw a hail mary in overtime on the first drive for the game winning touch down….

OK… There is how I let go of cheering for a losing team….

Now back to our story….

I spent a few weeks in Denver to do some business… See my favorite rock band, Rush, play at The Red Rocks Amphitheater….

And as a result I absolutely fell in love with the city of Denver…

Heck… I paid $600k for my house in the suburbs of Vancouver BC and for that price I could live in the elitist communities of Denver…. Where here in the Greater Vancouver area I live only in the upper middle class neighborhoods…

Anyway….The Bills are playing the Broncos in Denver in December… One of my hockey team mates has tickets to that game and asked me to go….soooooo….

Rick, the latest I will be in Denver is December…..

But…. Have truck…. Have travel trailer…. Am going to be traveling….

Hmmmm…. Denver…. This summer…. Heck yeah… I think so

Scott….

Almost missed your comment….

The question still remains….Do you like Rush

They rocked Red Rocks like nobody could….

Was fun chatting with you during your opening… Get in touch with me Scott…

Cheers….

Now everybody following this post go get some inspirational tunes from one of the greatest rock icons…. That's Rush folks…

Get:

1. Limelight
2. Red Barchetta
3. Driven
4. Tom Sawyer
5. Grand Designs
6. New World Man

OK, I could go on here…. But do definitely get the song Grand Designs….

Wait….. OK, I get inspired by music….

What and who inspires you????

Go forth and get inspired….

Inspiration is the key to making tons of freakin' cash….

Nuff of the rant now…. Scott…. Get in touch with me….

"Wow!" Ivé just read all these comments on John's product and I'm wondering what gives here? Being new to the internet and all there seems to be a lot of bitching going on here that sounds like sower grapes or envy to me.

I fear for my desire for an internet business but on the other hand a few of the balanced comments gave me confidence theres a chance I'll succeed.

On the out side looking in.:-)

Rick,

Your "Dear Marketing Kingpin" comment resonated with me. Lately I've done more unsubscribing than ever before for this very reason. I hate being emailed daily with offer after offer. Whatever happened to getting an email with actual content? Or at least a LINK to actual content?

Note to self: Remember what this feels like and NEVER do it to my list.

Deb Gallardo

The Story Ideas Virtuosos last blog post..Story Ideas - Two Resources

I have a new bonus for Traffic Secrets: no bonus!

Bonuses just get you on another list, so I'm making sure to stick with John's idea of a clean, no backend, no upsell, launch and upping the ante with no BONUS promotion.

I am off to start a Warrior thread entitled "Who has the worst bonus for TS?"

I'm sure it will be picked up in the engines and thousands will be clicking through, lol.

Goodnight Rick,

Hope that you can get some sleep now after stirring things up again. I know I woke up, couldn't get back to sleep and so chose to sign on the pute and check out all the tweeting I could hear inside. And there you were. And here I am. One hour later, more wide awake than I was when I couldn't get back to sleep.

I agree with what you say about the dark side of the street that has become associated with the HUGE product launches. I have been exposed to enough of them now that I recognize them for what they are. A method, obviously successful, whereby those IMers with the biggest "black book" can go to their clients and hope to "tempt" them again.

I know that because I have been tempted before and have the left-over babies aging on bookshelves to show for it.
I know that I am the reason for most of that for not being a "man" and getting things up and going. But no need to get into the blame mode.

I feel fortunate that over the last two years, I have had the opportunity to work with Dr. Mike Woo-Ming and Howie Schwartz and now with Jack Humphrey and can recognize a quality package when I see it. But I cannot say that, as a person still seeking the success that can be made in the IM world, I do not fall under the tempting promises of the newest, brightest shiny thing to come along; especially if there are little gifts on the side.

I sincerely hope that when I am that success I hope to be I will remember what it felt like to be the IM virgin looking for that right someone who could satisfy my hunger and need for a new life.

So, Good Night Rick. Thanks for being a catalyst again for bringing out both sides of the street.

I've gotta agree Rick, the internet marketing industry is turning into one huge red light district - and George Washington is their pimp.

Sharon Bray-McPherson

Hello from an X-Pimp from the otha side of the tracks.

I just wanted to say that "I" have the best bonus available which comes in my beautifully packaged hard (non-green) PLASTIC case with pretty colors titled…

"How To Be a Hoe"

If you wanna make your Pimp Daddy happy, get my bonus and he won't hafta pimp slap you in the absence of the po-po.

This has been a public service announcement.

Faithfully yours,
Velvet Jones

Marketers: Are We "Whores and Pimps?"

(First, Rick is a personal friend who I care for and respect. LOVE this debate. Let's learn while being open minded to all sides. Isn't that what America invades other countries for? To enforce Free Speech…hee hee. Dare I step into this Internet Marketing crossfire? Let's get to it then, shall we?)

Rick, you called out Internet Marketing 'gurus' as "whores" for recommending a new product from John Reese, a well-known and very successful (rich) online entrepreneur.

You defined the word 'whore' using Dictionary.com and applied it to those offering bonuses for buying TS2 from them. And, then asked these 2 questions:

1. "Does the person sending this to me actually give a darn how I come up with the money for this "must have" product - and whether it truly has a positive impact on my success - or if it is just another big box of stuff I will not be able to digest - putting me further behind in my goals?"

2. "Does this course contain real "secrets" or, is it possible, I can learn everything I need to learn, at a pace I can actually absorb and implement it - another way, for less money or free?"

Let's look at the context of ANY sale. Don't adults have their own minds, along with emotional and intellectual reasons for seeking out and buying products or services?
Aside from food and shelter, what's truly necessary in our lives?

It makes me wonder, does the car dealer really care about me and my family's safety, comfort and fuel economy or is it just another hunk of steel and alloy on 4 rubber tires, and (if I could afford it) with a "L" logo on it?

Does anyone really need an iPhone? Can they afford it, plus the monthly highway robbery for web access they can get for FREE at the Public Library? The credit card companies did the credit application for my customers, so is their 'affordability' factor my social responsibility?

Don't get me wrong, I despise cons and scams ripping off anyone, old or weak. Fraud and lies are wrong and illegal. And yes, respect your list. Respect your readers. If you slam and slam, they unsubscribe. Isn't this self-policing?

Regarding the second question, I haven't seen the government or the FTC busting down publishers' doors and arresting everyone from the authors to the printers for putting out another diet book of "secrets" for losing those extra pounds.

As far as absorbing the information at my own rate, my DVD player did come with these amazing Bonus buttons, besides Play, to help me - Pause and Stop.

For decades, people have been offered the "No workout and no diet" solutions to weight loss, when there are plenty of free resources claiming to get the same result. Common sense is free too (but using it remains voluntary) as we know that "eating less and exercising more" is pretty much the key for most of us.

For the record, I did recommended to my own community
that they "check out" John's Traffic Secrets 2.0,
as I know him to be honorable, experienced and knowledgable. I did not offer any bonuses.

For complete disclosure, I did not fully review the entire product, hence my 'take a look' approach. I have seen the digital transcripts of the DVDs and did review the entire first edition of "Traffic Secrets" however.

Really, I expect that most will NOT buy Traffic Secrets 2.0 but they can LEARN from its marketing, beyond the "Launch" hype and "bonus competition." I recommend people check out the MARKETING TECHNIQUES, i.e. using online video, and the the PROCESS. If you like TS 2.0, fine, buy it too, but either way, you can certainly model a guy who's made a few GAzillion bucks online.

In summary, Rick you also blogged and proposed:

a) One compromises one's principles for being an affiliate of a "launch"
b) One is in it for the money (uh….Yes, this is a business arena) and "take a big fat 50% of your money for themselves"
c) Adding bonuses is "shaking their bonuses at you, (the stuff they swore would never be for sale again at their last launch), and cooing seductively."

Let's look at these too, one at a time.

For (a), if you know the person or business is offering a valuable, pratical product, how is one compromising on principals? Certainly, as long as you've done your due diligence, you should feel comfortable recommending something helpful, EVEN if it costs money and EVEN if you make a commission/profit.

When should one take part in the excitement and momentum of an event like a launch? How many Republican or Democrat t-shirts can I sell AFTER the election is over?

For (b), again…"Duh!" Unless you're a monk…
Wait, doesn't the Dalai Lama, participate in thriving, profitable publishing deals and business to raise funds for Tibet and world peace? Damn him too - Big Whore Monk!

Retailers mark up product easily, 100%. Jewelry is often sold at 400% mark up. It's a FREE Market. You don't have to buy your furniture, car, house, books, electronics, massage, car cleaning anywhere you don't want to.

Note: The original Traffic Secrets was $997 and this second, Traffic Secrets 2.0, drops to only $397, so affiliates will earn less. Yes, earn!

Affiliates built the list, presumably through some level of trust and respect, since prospects volunteered their names and email. It's the marketer's list to profit from and to protect and honor too.

Thers is also NO (obvious) backend to John's offer. There will be no other upsells, one-time offers, special bundles, forced continuity, optional continuity, immediate backend offers or anything. NOTHING else will be for sale.

For (c), bonuses have been part of promotions for eons. Marketing does encourage people to buy now. Building psychological pressure or just plain old 'opportunity' is not atypical.

And secondarily, regarding the 'scarcity' approach, how many times have you heard "For a Limited Time Only" from Walt Disney? They've been selling "Snow White" since when, around 1945?

What changes is the FORMAT. It's usually the technology - here from big screen, to VHS, to DVD and now Blue Ray. So, are we really buying the "content" or the "experience" each time?

It could also be the PERSON presenting the information, or providing the service. Why do I go to my "stylist" Lucky to get my hair done for $33 when I 'could' possibly get a similar result from Luigi the "barber" for $12 per lid shop? Packaging and Positioning (that I'm willing to even pay a premium for).

Finally, we sell CONVENIENCE of information gathered in one place in an organized, well presented format. For decades, some sell Government Grants info, which is FREE and available, IF you want to take the time and frustration to find it yourself vs. paying $69 to get right to it. I wouldwillingly pay the extra $40 to ride the same rides as others at roller coaster parks, but skip to the front of the line - anyday! (Busted.. I'm a Type A personality.)

For marketers, 'scarcity' is psychological application of supply and demand. Don't lie about it. Sure. Don't lie about anything (And, help the feeble, old lady with her groceries too while you're at it. Don't sell nuclear arms - unless you really, really trust the buyer either.)

What moral line starts and ends with us as marketers? Surely there should be honest, decency and respect. Let's put out the offer, affiliate link or recommendation and let the CUSTOMER decide from there.

If we misuse, abuse or otherwise mislead, our clients and customers, they can leave us, share negative comments and easily unsubscribe.

Nice debate and socially generated content all- around, Rick.

Wishing you all much success,

Martin Wales
http://www.MartinWales.com
http://www.CustomerCatcher.com

Hey Rick,

Great conversational point as always. I really love the fact that you've got the likes of Jack, Colin, Frank, Jason, Dr. Mani and others jumping in here with more comments. Cudos to you Rick.

On another note I think a new reverse auction strategy may be in order for future such launches. Taking your affiliate whore links observation to a new level may dictate that all those who are receiving 12 (or more) emails offering bonuses for the newest hot launch decide what product they "didn't" purchase from a guru in the past couple of months and then send them an e-mail telling the guru (whore) exactly what product or products they want for purchasing through his or her affiliate link.

I mean if it's a negotiation, why not make it a negotiation that benefits you in the way that you want to be benifited? After all if you are paying a whore, isn't it O.K. to ask for what makes you feel good rather than just taking what they give???

"Hey (Insert whore here) , (Insert another whore here)is offering ***** and you're only offering ****..

What else ya got?" Time to pony up whores. You started it.

Woo, you know you're making waves in the community when people EXPECT you to come down to a comment thread. You know I'm cool with you and all, Rick, but I'd like to take a different tack here.

I passed on promoting (and even if you're not an affiliate, you do promote things in a certain way!) - Traffic Secrets, Day Job Killer, Affiliate Evolution, Google Nemesis, Affiliate Project X … I can name off one real IM product I've promoted. As my online name suggests, I am a niche marketer, not an internet marketer - my focus isn't on really selling people on Yet Another Technique.

My focus is on teaching people how to behave themselves appropriately in niche markets, and quite frankly - you can have all the traffic in the world, but if you can't speak to your "tribe" (as @CoachDeb likes to call it) without pissing them off, well…it does you no good.

Paging Dr. Obvious? After looking over the backlash, posts, twitter fire, and other associated craziness, I don't think this is an obvious point.

Bottom line, and the real takeaway - you MUST get better at finding your own niche as a marketer.

Write down what you are focused on TODAY, 6 months, 12 months, 3 years, 5 years, etc.

Write down what you HATE doing. If you cringe at the idea of PPC, STOP BUYING PPC HOWTOS. If you hate product creation and like being an affiliate, STOP BUYING PRODUCT CREATION HOWTOS.

Buy what you're truly focused on, and not what anyone is promoting.

That's all I got - I didn't feel like John Reese stomping today. Or affiliate marketer stomping. I'm just laying down the good word.