12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing

rick butts does it again

big jason top affiliate challenge whores last blog post..New WordPress Theme for Top Affiliate Challenge

A man after my own heart, Rick, you say what everyone else feels and is thinking. I get so p**ssed off with these whores.
They don’t actually care too much about the product really – just their 50% cut of the profits.

In March 2007 I got so fed up of the constant barrage of emails for the same product from different marketers that I blogged about it and got a very warm response. Rick, if it’s OK with you, here is a link to the archive of those posts which make for entertaining reading.

You are not on your own with your opinion of how things are online right now
http://www.michaelsherriff.com/blog/category/stop-pitching-at-me/

Michael

Michael Sherriffs last blog post..New Affiliate Show Pro Software

Rick, agree in concept. But must disagree on the terms.

The subjects you target are not “whores.” That would imply they are victims. They are known as “List Pimps.”

List Pimps are one of the more nefarious members of the Black Triad. Dangerous, abusive, and full of empty promises their job is to whore YOU (as their subscriber) out for their profit and pleasure.

The Black Triad: spot em’, stomp em’, & win in your business by knowing thine enemy http://snipurl.com/blacktriad

@JPmicek

Rick,

I really wish you wouldn’t have put ME in the center of your next hurricane!

For the record, until this post anyway, me and John are buds. My link for this comment points to one of my TS2 posts on Friday Traffic Report.

I think what people need to do to weigh this launch is 2 things:

1. Look at John’s track record and the respect he commands around the web and the material included in this version of Traffic Secrets and decide for themselves, as John wants you to, if the course is right for them and their experience level.

2. Decide which “whore” is going to get your money for buying if you decide to buy. This is accomplished, I believe, by going through the affiliate link you think deserves the credit. I am almost positive John is using “last cookie” which means the last person to send you gets the credit.

Big launches and the value of John’s product are two different things and should be considered separately in my opinion.

I might have one myself one day!

John Reese is more than cute – he’s a buff stud muffin who’s rich and famous (infamous?) and touring Europe while this launch runs on autopilot.

Kudos!

He’s also a brilliant student of the game of Internet marketing and imminently qualified to talk about all phases of Internet marketing.

My basic yap here is the relentless whoring out of bonuses to get you to buy something so the sender can make a buck – combined with the whole launch hype.

What is really interesting is that the stuff in Traffic Secrets 1.0 is so powerful that I use technqiues from it every day as part of my fundamental approach to marketing online.

Rick

Hey Rick,

It’s rare that I get on board with the Big Gun Guru marketers….

John Reese’s Traffic Secrets 2.0 is one of those rare occassions….

What I find refreshing about John is the fact that his affiliate manager sent me a digital version of the course…

That is bloody rare with the guru club and….

from sounds of things from John’s affiliate manager that this product will actually be on the market and for sale without the scarcity tactic of the “doors are slamming shut”

Anyway I do really like John’s offer with Traffic Secrets 2.0….

No…I personally didn’t find anything earth-shattering in the product but it is certainly useful information for those that need to learn the business…

Well back to being a marketing whore….or am I a marketing pimp….whatever the case….back to making some cash

Your title is a little misleading Rick. I sort of
expected to see a list of 12 names.

I’ve actually gone trough a training guide that
covered much of the materials in the course, and
like TS 1, it’s an encyclopedia (catalog) of
techniques, with some fairly detailed instructions.

Granted, everything is not news to me, but there
is enough new ideas that I feel comfortable
recommending TS 2, and even offering a bonus. I
assume that not everyone is adept at the
social networking sites and other methods of
traffic generation as I am.

Jack does put out some incredible information.

willie

Rick just LOVES to stir the controversy.

Never, of course, would I dare do such a thing.

Putting John Reese personally aside, I want to take this opportunity to whisper a message to all these big-time internet millionaires who no longer flood my inbox.

Please… do not condescend to me and say in your “news” (marketing) letters that you give one rat’s patootie about me and my business. Go ahead and be honest. Use this copy instead: (You have my permission.)

Hey Sucker,
I was sitting here scratching my balls and drooling over my bank account. I have ten Mercedes and you don’t. (I hope you at least have a loaf of bread.) Check out my new eBook, “B.S SECRETS EXPOSED!”

OK, I’m being snotty and sarcastic again.

Sorry. I really can NOT help myself. It’s late.

Rick, we need to talk.

Lorraine Grulas last blog post..Revver.Com: A Video Sharing Site That Shares the Profits Too.

I concur with Johnathan. I hate getting the same message from different marketers, cyber litter bugs, I call them. I don’t know if the stuff that they are selling is last years revamped products or not.
I’m on my own and picking up tidbits here and there.
Diane
http://tracersrusGBG.businesscard2.com
http://tracersrusblog.businesscard2.com
http://tracersrusSendOut.businesscard2.com
http://tracersrusPrePaid.businesscard2.com

I can’t say I’m opposed to a product that teaches these “secrets” but totally agree that there aren’t many secrets if you’ve been around a while.

John Reese does sell to a market of people who have never seen all the great stuff you teach, or really been an online business. So if someone buys this, implements whatever he teaches, I’m sure it’s far more valuable that many other things they could do with the money.

However, the hype by the in crowd with whatever “new Internet Secret of the Week” comes out gets overblown in the search for short term profits.. and makes me wonder what they would do to get steady traffic, leads and sales if they weren’t playing this game.

Would a real business pay out 50$ on every product they introduce? There are better ways.

Hey Rick

couldn’t agree more with what you said especially…

“Does the person sending this to me actually give a darn how I come up with the money for this “must have” product – and whether it truly has a positive impact on my success – or if it is just another big box of stuff I will not be able to digest – putting me further behind in my goals?”

And I made this comment just new from being a victim of another high priced “mentoring” program which I am not allowed to ask questions and where questions are answered with, “Do you want to make money or not?” and “I have clients who paid me $50,000 and happy”…

Any attempt to ask questions will be rebutted with, “just follow my instructions and do what I say”…

I recently posted in my blog why people get ‘scammed’ and I think one of the reasons is fear. Fear of not having this information that may just transform their life.

Sorry for the rant as I had a really bad day fighting with the so called mentor. I had a good feeling I am kissing my hard earned money goodbye.

Why is it that people never learn from bad purchases???

My favorite comment?
Jack Humphreys

Now, let’s get down and dirty.

You said:
nternet marketing whores dressed in skimpy outfits (shocking subject lines)

Oh, you mean like,
“12 Biggest Whores in Internet Marketing”?

I’m still trying to figure out who the 12 are — but maybe the inconsistency of your statement to your actions (headline, as stated above) blinded me to them. (Hey, I’ll admit to being pulled by your headline.)

Now, was there, um, satisfaction when I got here?

Delivery on the promise?

Or is it just a way to slipstream into all the hoopla on John’s promotion.

It’s not a bad technique (riding the slipstream) — but to point fingers at the person who is unintentionally bringing you this traffic is a bit disingenuous, don’t you think?

I mean, if all your traffic techniques are so wonderful, why are you resorting to this sort of controversy to stir up more?

Surely, at the end of your free information, there’s a market funnel? Listbuilding? You surely would be a poor marketer, in my estimation, not to do so.

What’s the problem with people offering bonuses? I don’t get it.

Now — yes, it would be poor form if a marketer offered again what they promised to never offer again. I admit to not being a careful peruser of people’s offers at the moment. But usually I believe the offers read something like “I’ve never offered this before.” (And if I hear Jeff Walker use that phrase one more time it will drive me to distraction, LOL. Luv ya Jeff, but it’s da twuth.)

If people want to read my blog, they can check it out at my site at NextDay-Copy.com (actually, I have 2; one for copywriting and one for Ed Dale’s 30 Day Challenge.) I’m here to make a comment, not to get a backlink.

So Rick,

Did I get this right: It’s ok to sell a load of crap if it’s only a couple of hundred bucks and/or if your heart is pure?

Maybe there’s a moral balance in offering a worthwhile bonus with a questionable product. (or vice versa.)

Steve Markowskis last blog post..Rick Butts Bitch Slaps Product Launch

Rick

I love it. Myself, if I see a whore offering a condo on Maui or a black Hummer as a bonus, will actually consider becoming a John. Other than that, I just ignore the inbox glut that comes with these launches.

Whores take notice. Better spell out the condo or Hummer in your subject line, or I’ll miss it. I’m driving real fast down your boulevard, and it will take a very sexy outfit to get me to slow down.

Why?

You’re unabashedly link baiting to keep your blog alive.

When you step back and look at it in the broadest terms,
you are just another sooted pot then; waving your IM arms to make a buck, while calling the kettle black.

Hmmm there was a bible story about a tainted crowd member pointing out the whore…

Do you really want sensationalized negative controversy
to be your legacy, or even the defibrillator for your blog?

Mr Butts, I have tough standards:
I’ve promoted 3 items in 3 years.
(No bonuses-I am helpful instead)

But there are some very excellent people who will offer
bonuses, whom you’re insulting.

Good Health to You,
Ed

Hmm… should I change specialities and offer the cure for digital AIDS, instead?

Nice. I already have the cred in the IM niche!

Hmm… Maybe I’ll even ask the Gates Foundation for a grant

All success
Dr.Mani

P.S. Hey, Rick, I hope you aren’t including those who are promoting “Safe
‘Traffic Secrets’ Sex” in your rant?!

P.P.S. Reading carefully, you’ll notice Rick’s NOT against TS2 – he’s against
those hyping it to the sky and lacing their affiliate offer with ridiculous
bonuses! (Just pointing it out, in case anyone missed it)

P.P.P.S. – Uh-oh, just noticed Rick had clarified that in an earlier comment!
Oh well, bears repeating anyway.

I, for one, am a slut. Not a whore. Sluts don’t get paid. And because I offered my bonus to EVERYONE who buys John’s course …regardless of which link they use, I am not getting paid.

Therefore, slutty and proud.

Did you hear about the 2 Mexicans that walked into a bar to order Traffic Secrets?

Really, you didn’t hear?

Seriously, you didn’t hear?

Well, check my blog for the full scoop!

J-Mo

Jason Moffatts last blog post..Two Mexicans Order Traffic Secrets 2.0

Judging by the comments here – I make the following observations:

1 – Many people scan a blog post without reading it – and comment on what they infer it to mean – inaccurately. It’s tough to respond to a comment about what was not said in the first place.

2 – Some people read every word and over-analyze the meaning and inject their inferences all the same.

3 – Some people understand that as Freud once said, “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.” I love these people.

4 – Some people are confused because there is no list of 12 names. I was hoping my smarter readers would pick up on the irony.

5 – Some people are so darn clever that can make hilariously funny, and fun, journeys out of my recklessness.

This includes today’s winners:

* Moffatt and Kern, a dandy presidential ticket if you ask me

* Lorraine Grula – a woman who actually had an Ebay ad on her blog, for a turd that had a striking resemblance to Dick Cheney’s face. Is that “stink bait?”

* Dr. Mani – proving that you don’t have to be a Southern Causasian to take a pun and run with it!

*** To all my dear doubting readers who think I’m a one-trick-pony who racks my brain each day for a way to manufacture link bait from the latest launch, 2 thoughts:

A. I really do simply make observations on the “parade” in front of me – as you can probably tell by the posts and videos no one comments on.

B. If you CAN get people to comment a lot on your blog – isn’t that kind of the point?

Love to all – and to all a good night,
Rick

The value of whores.

This conversation assumes whores are BAD. I contend nothing in life is all good or all bad and the hypocrisies of conventional wisdom and stereotypes are easily revealed.

For example, we often judge success by money earned. So if whores are “bad” why do whores make significantly more $$$ than virtuous schoolteachers?

So answer me that one huh?

Does this mean the free market says sex is more valued than intellectualism? Help, the sordid facts have thrown me even deeper into the cynicism abyss!!!!

Lorraine Grulas last blog post..Revver.Com: A Video Sharing Site That Shares the Profits Too.

That bastard John (yes, the Sweetie said bastard…after all, when in Rome…hey wait, isn’t John in Rome??!) isn’t giving out any prizes to his affiliates.

As a whoring insider, I can tell you this launch is very low key. He’s giving us the nuts and bolts. Those are going all wild giving away their children, wives and zillion dollar software and seminar recordings are doing it all on their own volition.

Thanks for keeping the product-crazed IM public in check, Rick.

Alice Sebas last blog post..Complete Traffic Secrets 2.0 Review

To Adam Urbanski (above)

Hey Adam, thanks for your well thought out comment.

I want to reply on one issue you mentioned – because I think it invites me to clarify and I didn’t think of this until now.

“victimhood – and complaining about being marketed to”

Your point is well taken – and I am leading the complaints.

I think that if I could state this all another way – it would be like this.

Dear Marketing Kingpin,

Yes, I got on your list because you offered me something for (free?) that required me to give you my email address and confirm you could.

I realize that you would market to me – and I’m cool with that.

I just would like to ask you to treat me with respect, and cut out the B.S. – and really think twice about what you send me.

Don’t mail me every day.

Try including some good content without making me optin to yet another list – remember – we’re already communicating?

And please PLEASE if you are going to give away that pricey product I bought a few months ago – to your new friends – just for buying your buddy’s product now – consider how that makes me feel?

And maybe, try reading 1000 True Fans and think long term instead of just about delivery rates, open rates, conversion rates, and unsubscribe rates.

Thanks sincerely,

Your List

Hey Folks,

When I wrote my free marketing report entitled “Constant Conversation” and yeah, my upsell to “Cashflow Conversation” I quoted the one and only Rick Butts in both books about creating online conversations….

Notice the number of comments Rick generates???

Yeah, there are always tons of comments on his blog….

Why?

Because Rick is a BRILLIANT guy….

Now come on…. Please… Oh please come comment in my blog

Yes, Rick does stir controversy….

But…

Rick DOES NOT stir controversy for the sake of controversy….

I have stayed at Rick’s house and had some of the most amazing conversations with him….

Rick is WAY smarter than anybody gives him credit for…

If you doubt Rick Butts brilliance I suggest that you grab a copy of his book right now….

I have been reading The Safari Chronicles Volume One from Rick and have to say it is VERY thought provoking….

Rick you ROCK my friend….

Oh yeah……I will very likely be in Denver at the latest in December to see the Broncos Vs. Bills….

Interesting story there… I used to be a Bills fan…

I let that go as last season as my father was passing away from Leukemia was a Green Bay fan…. I briefly jumped on board to cheer with my Dad for the Green Bay Packers….

OK…No need to bore you all with my personal pangs….

But, I did let go of the Buffalo Bills as I spent the last night of my father’s life watching the Green Bay Packers and my father’s football hero, Brett Favre, take a Monday Night game on the last drive…..

Yeah… I saw my father cheer in a very weak voice for Brett as he threw a hail mary in overtime on the first drive for the game winning touch down….

OK… There is how I let go of cheering for a losing team….

Now back to our story….

I spent a few weeks in Denver to do some business… See my favorite rock band, Rush, play at The Red Rocks Amphitheater….

And as a result I absolutely fell in love with the city of Denver…

Heck… I paid $600k for my house in the suburbs of Vancouver BC and for that price I could live in the elitist communities of Denver…. Where here in the Greater Vancouver area I live only in the upper middle class neighborhoods…

Anyway….The Bills are playing the Broncos in Denver in December… One of my hockey team mates has tickets to that game and asked me to go….soooooo….

Rick, the latest I will be in Denver is December…..

But…. Have truck…. Have travel trailer…. Am going to be traveling….

Hmmmm…. Denver…. This summer…. Heck yeah… I think so

“Wow!” Ivé just read all these comments on John’s product and I’m wondering what gives here? Being new to the internet and all there seems to be a lot of bitching going on here that sounds like sower grapes or envy to me.

I fear for my desire for an internet business but on the other hand a few of the balanced comments gave me confidence theres a chance I’ll succeed.

On the out side looking in.:-)

I have a new bonus for Traffic Secrets: no bonus!

Bonuses just get you on another list, so I’m making sure to stick with John’s idea of a clean, no backend, no upsell, launch and upping the ante with no BONUS promotion.

I am off to start a Warrior thread entitled “Who has the worst bonus for TS?”

I’m sure it will be picked up in the engines and thousands will be clicking through, lol.

I’ve gotta agree Rick, the internet marketing industry is turning into one huge red light district – and George Washington is their pimp.

Sharon Bray-McPherson

Marketers: Are We “Whores and Pimps?”

(First, Rick is a personal friend who I care for and respect. LOVE this debate. Let’s learn while being open minded to all sides. Isn’t that what America invades other countries for? To enforce Free Speech…hee hee. Dare I step into this Internet Marketing crossfire? Let’s get to it then, shall we?)

Rick, you called out Internet Marketing ‘gurus’ as “whores” for recommending a new product from John Reese, a well-known and very successful (rich) online entrepreneur.

You defined the word ‘whore’ using Dictionary.com and applied it to those offering bonuses for buying TS2 from them. And, then asked these 2 questions:

1. “Does the person sending this to me actually give a darn how I come up with the money for this “must have” product – and whether it truly has a positive impact on my success – or if it is just another big box of stuff I will not be able to digest – putting me further behind in my goals?”

2. “Does this course contain real “secrets” or, is it possible, I can learn everything I need to learn, at a pace I can actually absorb and implement it – another way, for less money or free?”

Let’s look at the context of ANY sale. Don’t adults have their own minds, along with emotional and intellectual reasons for seeking out and buying products or services?
Aside from food and shelter, what’s truly necessary in our lives?

It makes me wonder, does the car dealer really care about me and my family’s safety, comfort and fuel economy or is it just another hunk of steel and alloy on 4 rubber tires, and (if I could afford it) with a “L” logo on it?

Does anyone really need an iPhone? Can they afford it, plus the monthly highway robbery for web access they can get for FREE at the Public Library? The credit card companies did the credit application for my customers, so is their ‘affordability’ factor my social responsibility?

Don’t get me wrong, I despise cons and scams ripping off anyone, old or weak. Fraud and lies are wrong and illegal. And yes, respect your list. Respect your readers. If you slam and slam, they unsubscribe. Isn’t this self-policing?

Regarding the second question, I haven’t seen the government or the FTC busting down publishers’ doors and arresting everyone from the authors to the printers for putting out another diet book of “secrets” for losing those extra pounds.

As far as absorbing the information at my own rate, my DVD player did come with these amazing Bonus buttons, besides Play, to help me – Pause and Stop.

For decades, people have been offered the “No workout and no diet” solutions to weight loss, when there are plenty of free resources claiming to get the same result. Common sense is free too (but using it remains voluntary) as we know that “eating less and exercising more” is pretty much the key for most of us.

For the record, I did recommended to my own community
that they “check out” John’s Traffic Secrets 2.0,
as I know him to be honorable, experienced and knowledgable. I did not offer any bonuses.

For complete disclosure, I did not fully review the entire product, hence my ‘take a look’ approach. I have seen the digital transcripts of the DVDs and did review the entire first edition of “Traffic Secrets” however.

Really, I expect that most will NOT buy Traffic Secrets 2.0 but they can LEARN from its marketing, beyond the “Launch” hype and “bonus competition.” I recommend people check out the MARKETING TECHNIQUES, i.e. using online video, and the the PROCESS. If you like TS 2.0, fine, buy it too, but either way, you can certainly model a guy who’s made a few GAzillion bucks online.

In summary, Rick you also blogged and proposed:

a) One compromises one’s principles for being an affiliate of a “launch”
b) One is in it for the money (uh….Yes, this is a business arena) and “take a big fat 50% of your money for themselves”
c) Adding bonuses is “shaking their bonuses at you, (the stuff they swore would never be for sale again at their last launch), and cooing seductively.”

Let’s look at these too, one at a time.

For (a), if you know the person or business is offering a valuable, pratical product, how is one compromising on principals? Certainly, as long as you’ve done your due diligence, you should feel comfortable recommending something helpful, EVEN if it costs money and EVEN if you make a commission/profit.

When should one take part in the excitement and momentum of an event like a launch? How many Republican or Democrat t-shirts can I sell AFTER the election is over?

For (b), again…”Duh!” Unless you’re a monk…
Wait, doesn’t the Dalai Lama, participate in thriving, profitable publishing deals and business to raise funds for Tibet and world peace? Damn him too – Big Whore Monk!

Retailers mark up product easily, 100%. Jewelry is often sold at 400% mark up. It’s a FREE Market. You don’t have to buy your furniture, car, house, books, electronics, massage, car cleaning anywhere you don’t want to.

Note: The original Traffic Secrets was $997 and this second, Traffic Secrets 2.0, drops to only $397, so affiliates will earn less. Yes, earn!

Affiliates built the list, presumably through some level of trust and respect, since prospects volunteered their names and email. It’s the marketer’s list to profit from and to protect and honor too.

Thers is also NO (obvious) backend to John’s offer. There will be no other upsells, one-time offers, special bundles, forced continuity, optional continuity, immediate backend offers or anything. NOTHING else will be for sale.

For (c), bonuses have been part of promotions for eons. Marketing does encourage people to buy now. Building psychological pressure or just plain old ‘opportunity’ is not atypical.

And secondarily, regarding the ‘scarcity’ approach, how many times have you heard “For a Limited Time Only” from Walt Disney? They’ve been selling “Snow White” since when, around 1945?

What changes is the FORMAT. It’s usually the technology – here from big screen, to VHS, to DVD and now Blue Ray. So, are we really buying the “content” or the “experience” each time?

It could also be the PERSON presenting the information, or providing the service. Why do I go to my “stylist” Lucky to get my hair done for $33 when I ‘could’ possibly get a similar result from Luigi the “barber” for $12 per lid shop? Packaging and Positioning (that I’m willing to even pay a premium for).

Finally, we sell CONVENIENCE of information gathered in one place in an organized, well presented format. For decades, some sell Government Grants info, which is FREE and available, IF you want to take the time and frustration to find it yourself vs. paying $69 to get right to it. I wouldwillingly pay the extra $40 to ride the same rides as others at roller coaster parks, but skip to the front of the line – anyday! (Busted.. I’m a Type A personality.)

For marketers, ‘scarcity’ is psychological application of supply and demand. Don’t lie about it. Sure. Don’t lie about anything (And, help the feeble, old lady with her groceries too while you’re at it. Don’t sell nuclear arms – unless you really, really trust the buyer either.)

What moral line starts and ends with us as marketers? Surely there should be honest, decency and respect. Let’s put out the offer, affiliate link or recommendation and let the CUSTOMER decide from there.

If we misuse, abuse or otherwise mislead, our clients and customers, they can leave us, share negative comments and easily unsubscribe.

Nice debate and socially generated content all- around, Rick.

Wishing you all much success,

Martin Wales
http://www.MartinWales.com
http://www.CustomerCatcher.com

Hey Rick,

Great conversational point as always. I really love the fact that you’ve got the likes of Jack, Colin, Frank, Jason, Dr. Mani and others jumping in here with more comments. Cudos to you Rick.

On another note I think a new reverse auction strategy may be in order for future such launches. Taking your affiliate whore links observation to a new level may dictate that all those who are receiving 12 (or more) emails offering bonuses for the newest hot launch decide what product they “didn’t” purchase from a guru in the past couple of months and then send them an e-mail telling the guru (whore) exactly what product or products they want for purchasing through his or her affiliate link.

I mean if it’s a negotiation, why not make it a negotiation that benefits you in the way that you want to be benifited? After all if you are paying a whore, isn’t it O.K. to ask for what makes you feel good rather than just taking what they give???

“Hey (Insert whore here) , (Insert another whore here)is offering ***** and you’re only offering ****..

What else ya got?” Time to pony up whores. You started it.

Woo, you know you’re making waves in the community when people EXPECT you to come down to a comment thread. You know I’m cool with you and all, Rick, but I’d like to take a different tack here.

I passed on promoting (and even if you’re not an affiliate, you do promote things in a certain way!) – Traffic Secrets, Day Job Killer, Affiliate Evolution, Google Nemesis, Affiliate Project X … I can name off one real IM product I’ve promoted. As my online name suggests, I am a niche marketer, not an internet marketer – my focus isn’t on really selling people on Yet Another Technique.

My focus is on teaching people how to behave themselves appropriately in niche markets, and quite frankly – you can have all the traffic in the world, but if you can’t speak to your “tribe” (as @CoachDeb likes to call it) without pissing them off, well…it does you no good.

Paging Dr. Obvious? After looking over the backlash, posts, twitter fire, and other associated craziness, I don’t think this is an obvious point.

Bottom line, and the real takeaway – you MUST get better at finding your own niche as a marketer.

Write down what you are focused on TODAY, 6 months, 12 months, 3 years, 5 years, etc.

Write down what you HATE doing. If you cringe at the idea of PPC, STOP BUYING PPC HOWTOS. If you hate product creation and like being an affiliate, STOP BUYING PRODUCT CREATION HOWTOS.

Buy what you’re truly focused on, and not what anyone is promoting.

That’s all I got – I didn’t feel like John Reese stomping today. Or affiliate marketer stomping. I’m just laying down the good word.

I have a great idea!

For those like Rick who want to nudge marketing karma
away from embarrassing bonuses or hammering a list,

why not buy it from someone who has researched it
(not seen a review copy),

Not sent even 1 email.
And is offering NO bonus?

$397 is nothing for most of you, and even if you think
you know a lot of it, Reese is Not trying to
a cheap ebook with no new, valuable tips.
What your site returns on investment is up to you.

Plus you want to be “in the know” this week, this month, this year if you’re going to be part of the discussion, right?

I’m Sure there ARE NewTrafficSecrets.com inside

Just having another rick-butts-appreciation-moment here. hehee You are hilarious, dude.

I dig John. He’s one of the few IMers who actually responded personally to a message I sent him when he first joined Facebook. He seems to be of good stock. His presentations are quality & professional. And …. I’m not rushing out to buy anything from him… yet.

(Oh, and thanks to your advice, Rick, to only subscribe to a few quality IMers mailing lists, I didn’t see any whore promos for TS2.0!! w00t! I came across the product through Twitter & FriendFeed – love that!!)

I do tend to agree with your perspective about “secrets” – it’s a well-worn copywriting term, usually goes right along with “discover.” (Hey, I sometimes use ‘em myself).

I watched John’s video on his opt-in page (had to wait ’til I was back on higher speed internet… grrr!) I found it amusing he gave Facebook a cursory mention, zeroing in on his 5000 friends and encouraging peeps to get tons of friends ‘cuz it was all about having the audience. Fair enough. Different strokes for different folks.

But, I’ve heard peeps call those annoying friend-gatherer types on FB “Facebook Ho’s” – you know, the ones who add everyone and their dog?! Then they come and plaster a big siggy block on your wall. hehe

I don’t mean John. But, I rather think the vast majority of those 5000 peeps already had a seat in John’s arena. See, the cool thing about Facebook is it allows you to *expand* your community. And, for me, it’s two way. It’s not all about the audience and I’m on “stage.” More, it’s a cocktail party/business mixer where peeps are hanging out getting to know each other.

Anyway, I digress. Great stuff as always, Rick!

Cheers,
Mari
@marismith

Whoa.

@ Oliver

John Reese’s integrity and the already established quality of his products and expertise are not on trial or even in dispute. John Reese just doesn’t put his name on junk.

This blog post is about how affiliates and JV partners often promote these launches. And we’ve had a glut of them the first half of this year.

I am well-acquainted with someone who has 12 years’ experience in IM who received an advanced copy of all the transcripts (as a JV partner). She says the quality is indisputable and she has found nuggets of gold for herself, especially in DVD 2.

And this information won’t be outdated by Christmas, as was earlier stated, because the course comes with LIFETIME updates and access to a mastermind group that includes John Reese and his staff’s interaction. That alone is worth 4 times the price of the course.

Perhaps the word “Secrets” is over-used these days, but unless you or I or anyone else out there is making the kind of money John is, and enjoying not only the successes he has under his belt, but living a life that allows him to travel in Europe during a launch for heaven’s sake, then MAYBE HE DOES know some things the rest of us don’t. The fact is, we don’t know what we don’t know. How could we? Let’s keep things in perspective.

This is starting to sound like sour grapes to me, too.

When I have the cash, I will buy Traffic Secrets 2.0, because if I had it now, I’d get it in a heartbeat.

Deb Gallardo

The Story Ideas Virtuosos last blog post..Story Ideas – Two Resources

Great post Rick.
John Reese is a good guy but I couldnt help but see the irony of this launch.
There are millions of biz owners that need a product like this, right? No one would dispute that.
This is a product about how to get NEW customers, NEW buyers to our websites. Yet how ironic that this product is being PRIMARILY promoted by an established network of ‘product pushers’! Not that that in itself is wrong, but surely that approach is sending out a message that goes contrary to what the product is about. There are millions of potential customers – business owners that could have been reached apparently using the traffic ‘secrets’ – but instead, the tustee ‘network’ was employed. What message does that send to potential buyers of the course?! The message seems to be “YOU need to use these ‘secrets’ to promote your business but all I need is my network.” I like John, but I would have had more respect for him if he’d quietly used the traffic secrets to promote the course to REAL business owners, then offer it on an ongoing basis to ‘our world’ without all the hoopla and hype that is created by promoters. I hate what launches have become – it’s not the best way to serve customers in my opinion.

I don’t tar everyone with the same brush because some promoters genuinely care about their customers, but for most it seems the dollar signs come first and they’ll push every launch that comes their way. Why can’t they understand that their customers WILL rebel at some point? In our world it’s the same core group of customers who are getting hammered from every angle at least once a month – how long will they tolerate it? It seems so odd when there are millions of NEW customers out there! That’s who I’ve been attracting using methods like my H3 system for eBay.

There is a world outside IM and I think we all need reminding of that sometimes.

End of rant.

Andrew Locks last blog post..Episode #12 – eBay Special – Discover the 7 Crazy Changes Going on at eBay & Learn What to Do Now

Andrew Lock … what are you doing?

You just let the cat out of the bag.

Now everyone knows the REAL traffic secret.

Jonathan

Not making excuses… but it was DARK… and the music was really LOUD. I think I had a bit too much to drink too and they were like, ALL OVER ME!… man o man crazy day but I felt special for a change, different then normal somehow?

However, now I feel dirty. THANKS RICK!

I don’t know and can’t remember who’s cookie I tasted, all of them I think

Guess I better run my virus scan and go take a shower.

You guys are the coolest readers anywhere!

The whippings will continue until morale improves… LOL

Rick

Hey Rick,

Why don’t you just come out and say you’re so pricked
that others beat you to getting those $200.00
commission checks?

We already know IM is a guru inner-circle game. When
John makes $200 payable to each affiliate sale, and a
flood of them whore-pimps start falling over themselves
for a piece of the pie, should we be surprised that
our inboxes are getting flooded?

John is just cornering the market with his latest
release. Assuming what he is doing, is to one-up
Stompernet, with this grandfather thing; and with
his upcoming income website…

Those who jump in to sell TS2.0 will likely stand
to gain from future upsells and backends, ain’t
that lucrative considering his quality programs
are always high priced.

Again, no surprises.

Perhaps you’ll care enough to share what you
can learn from his TS2.0 forum with us in the
future… this will
make future visits to your website all the more
worthwhile.

Thanks Andrew Lock! Your comments should make
everyone here realize it’s all the JV Partners
who have lists that will win the IM game.

For one, they have the reach to make all
business owners’ ears stand up. These Partners
are the frontline people who will cascade
down all the important messages to the rest
of the pack, and to the ultimate users.

This Traffic Secret is meant for people without
lists, without influence, the 2nd or 3rd Tier
Players who scrounged for itty bitty traffic.

Go for the list. This technique is just too
powerful to ignore. Have we not seen enough?
It works and it pulls in the moolah.

But if we sell lame crap overpriced products…,
the whole wide world will swarm back and bite off
our skin. And it’ll be well-deserved.

Hey Rick,

Good job with this, man! I’ll be waiting on your new release entitled…

“Pricking Pimped Pimps – Hoes Will Follow”

BEAUTIFUL personification of what happens when you spill the Ripple.

Remember “Scientific Marketing”? That was written back in… what?… 1943? Yeah; Reese, you have to give the man his propers because he’s the Mark Joyner (2001) and Allen Says (2000) of 2008.. then there’s Andy over there, too.

Yet, what’s all the hooplah about really? I mean, I don’t see Big “G” or Mr. Ballmer making any bids on INcome.com. Every pond has its big a** catfish, in it. Question is, will the catfish continue to swim in the pond or try and swim UPstream and stop sucking up all the oxygen?

Seems that’s what everybody is preaching about; on either side of the fence. “I can’t breathe!” But, then again… when the Japanese rebuilt cars, TV’s and other electronics with prettIER packages.. most got ‘pricked’ at them, too. Due to nothing else other than the fact that they had the ‘resources’ to REpackage what had already been done.

Yeah, we can find all that is deftly scribed in TS2 online, for fr.ee; but the reality is, very few would go looking for it with the fever of the 1800′s gold miner.

Well, its all interesting to me because the big shift is right around the corner, anyway. I’m trying my best to get ready for that and have open arms for anyone who crosses the river.

“The List” will ALWAYS be the ‘end’ to the means; frustration sets in when the environment changes and the ‘means’ TO that end don’t work anymore in the traditional sense. This ain’t the early ’00′s; its been 8yrs already and there’s been way too much innovation by the REAL players for the Squeezers to really work like they did, before. Thus, the frustration. Remedies are coming, though.. can’t stop innovation.

Even Forbes just said, “Email is so ‘last decade’.”…
hmmm…

Peace, Love & Prosperity (everybody)… and Rick, keep makin’ ‘em think, my Brother.

William

Rick’s got it right … again.

If I had one nickel back from each of the “must have” stuff I’ve purchased, I could probably retire. And I can count on one hand the information and programs that I am actually glad I bought and continue to use.

So here’s my updated purchasing protocol and it seems to be working well for me so far.

I don’t buy a program or information until I need it (that way it gets used instead of just getting filed for “some day,” clogging up my computer. AND, I try to see if what I need is available for free (much of it is, and some of the free stuff is better than the paid stuff).

That’s just it. This isn’t a “game”. To me, this “IM game” means putting food on the table for my two children. It means buying my son diapers and medication when he’s sick. It means paying the rent so my kids have a safe place to sleep at night.

Until recently, I rarely had more than -$2 in my bank account. I would starve myself just so my kids could have what little we had left to eat. I had personal crap going on in my life that I allowed to get in the way of me working.

So when some shmuck comes along and tries to trick me into buying a product that may or may not work, I don’t appreciate it. I don’t want some copy and paste email that everyone else is sending out. I don’t want some crappy bonus they put together in two minutes using five year old tactics that don’t apply to today’s standards.

I want an HONEST review, an understanding of who this product is right for, and who it isn’t. Instead of saying “You HAVE to have THIS product or you’re going to kill yourself”, I want to see “This is the kind of product for someone who is just starting out in the internet marketing industry. If you already have experience marketing online, then you may want to skip this one.”

I’m not talking about Traffic Secrets or any other product in particular, I’m talking about the methods that these affiliates use to lure people in.

Think about the person you’re trying to sell to. Realize that they ARE a person. And don’t insult me with your crappy emails while trying to take my hard earned money. I’m smart enough to make the decision to buy on my own, it’s your job to give me the information I need to decide if it’s right for me or not.

If you want to know how to do it properly, check out Alice Seba and Lynn Terry. Ok, now I’m done ranting. Sorry.

Cassies last blog post..Thwirl versus TweetDeck

Hey William – Chuck – Dana – Lynnie and Cassie,

Thanks for taking the time to share such personal thoughts. And William – personification – what a tasty word to read first thing in the morning!

Friends warned me that using the “W” word and other edgy ideas would alienate people – I’m finding that there’s a nice world full of people who don’t mind using real language.

Thanks
Rick

It’s only a paper moon hanging over a muslin tree….

Authenticity ladies and gentlemen, is what the above expressed frustration is all about. The entire world is so fake. I know, I worked in TV for eons. I was the one doing the faking! Fooled ya all!

People just want the plain truth so they can make a decision but instead they get sky tricks and manipulation. Horse-hooey is you will.

Internet marketers are some of the best marketers around.

Best marketing = the most manipulative marketing.

Nobody wants to be manipulated but we are bombarded anyway.

Duck and cover folks!

Life sucks and then you die which, although sounds quite crass and pessimistic, actually means…QUIT COMPLAINING AND GET BACK TO WORK. Reality bites. Get over it.

Just being my practical self.

I no longer waste my time reading horse-hooey!

Instead, I waste my time writing horse-hooey on Rick Butts blog.

There’s a HUGE difference.

Lorraine Grulas last blog post..Revver.Com: A Video Sharing Site That Shares the Profits Too.

Hi Rick,
Thanks for stopping by and reading my Blog Post, I think it presents a valuable lesson that many can learn from and shows how social media is changing the way launches are perceived and that old school tactics are leaving many people with a bad taste in the mouth

I’m already following you … ya little twhore.

Harris Fellmans last blog post..harrisfellman: @johnreese – way to go, John – saw your email re: terminating affiliates w misleading ads (I call it the “John Reese Slap” <G>) pz

I hear all the frustration and have had my share of it. But a few things are bothering me about this discussion, and I am glad to see that some thoughtful and insightful comments have been posted here that shine like polished golden nuggets among the dross.

1)
If you’re getting multiple offers from lots of affiliates for a big promotion, then you’re on too many lists. You chose to subscribe and have had the option to unsubscribe since you signed up. That part is under your control, and no amount of complaining about how many emails you’re getting about TS 2.0 will change anything until you take action.

2)
What do hucksters, hypesters and schlock products have to do with John Reese and TS 2.0? If you’re upset with his affiliates, TAKE ACTION and tell him. Better still, tell THEM.

But moaning and groaning HERE is less likely to change anything long-term. John’s integrity and the quality of his products are above reproach. To lump him together with any Tom, Dick and Jane who are promoting every product down the pike with tantalizing bonuses, etc. is grossly unfair. I would buy TS 2.0 in a heartbeat, given the funds or credit, neither of which I have.

3)
Who among the spleen-venters here is an affiliate marketer? Or who is or has been an aspiring affiliate marketer? If you’re in either of these categories, you’re a hypocrite calling affiliate marketers whores.

Affiliate marketing is the backbone of the internet. Getting a commission for making a sale is a time-honored business practice.

And if you’re on that many internet marketers’ lists, then you must be planning to make money online. Therefore, if you could, you’d choose to make boatloads of money. So let’s be clear here. You’re studying to be a marketer. Or maybe you already are. Then are you planning to give away all YOUR products for free? Do you NOT plan to make a profit?

If you DO anticipate earning a living wage, then stop criticizing people who are implementing strategies that WORK and “go, thou, and do likewise.”

But here’s the problem. Rick, with his pot-stirring controversial post has single-handedly set back affiliate marketing to the dark ages.

Good, legitimate, responsible marketers have lost thousands of dollars and stand to lose even more in the future because of this controversy and resulting perception that if you promote someone else’s product you’re a blood-sucking, money-grubbing, street-walking prostitute.

Here’s what Rick had to say in his own words in this post at http://rickbutts.com/288/what-if-i-told-you-the-truth/

“For the last 2 years I’ve survived financially from affiliate marketing and reviewing products, while being infinitely frustrated with the state of Internet marketing as is well documented here.

So by not really being in “the game” (aggressively squeezing names and mailing for the big launches) I’ve really not prospered anywhere near what I could have – and that is my own fault.”

You are, Rick, by your own definition, an affiliate whore, according to this confession above.

So instead of “being in the game,” as you said, you chose to stir up this controversy, having all these other people who aren’t in the game themselves apparently (because if they were, they’d be out there making money and not here) and are jealous and frustrated, so they tell you “You’re the man.” I’m not going to do that.

I think what you have done is smeared good people in your quest to be in the spotlight. I hope it’s worth it to you to know that many people who could have benefited from John’s product will never buy it because of you — AND YOU HAVEN’T EVEN SEEN IT OR REVIEWED IT, yet you declared it would be outdated by Christmas. Considering John is offering lifetime updates, that means TS 3.0, TS 4.0, etc. will be FREE. So it will NEVER be outdated. Plus he and his staff will participate with customers — assuming you haven’t driven them all off — in a mastermind group.

And I hope all this attention focusing on you, Rick, is worth it in that you have stolen income, which you yourself COVET, from others whose livelihood is promoting quality products as affiliates. I personally know good people who have lost thousands of dollars because of this controversy you stirred up.

You’re like a little kid who sees someone else succeeding, and so you start bad-mouthing him/her, making claims, stirring the pot, and getting all the attention onto yourself. It’s a childish, selfish tactic and I’m appalled that you have stooped to so low a level and yet dare to drag every affiliate marketer through the mud by calling them whores.

And BTW, it’s not that you used the word “whore,” but that you are name calling with it, labeling people as such, most of whom you don’t even know.

If you put as much creativity into your business as you do into engendering controversy, you would have made that million dollars online several times over.

Fortunately, such attention as you have garnered here is fleeting.

There’s only so much tweaking you can do to this thread until it dies a natural death. But the interesting thing is, the furor will die down and John Reese will still be selling his TS 2.0. There’s no time limit. There’s no “I’m selling only XX copies” limitation. He’s got the track record and the longevity.

Poetic justice is sweet.

Deb Gallardo

The Story Ideas Virtuosos last blog post..Story Ideas – Don’t Throw Them Away

Deb, I think you’re missing the point…

Maybe I’m just interpreting Rick differently than you are, but it looks to me like you’ve missed the real
point(s) he was trying to make, to wit:

1.) If you ARE an affiliate marketer and believe you have a valuable product, for cryin’ out loud could you please write your own sales letter (with “reasons why” I should buy this and who it is really for), instead of spamming me with the cookie-cutter sales letter supplied by the seller?

And while you’re at it, tell me if you’ve actually used this product or have only read the sales page, as I have.
That’s being honest. It’s also being a good affiliate marketer instead of a spammer.

2.) If you are an affiliate marketer (and I understand you’re trying to sell me stuff in your newsletters), you’ll make a lot more money AND secure my trust if you aren’t pitching absolutely every launch/JV product that comes down the pike (again, all with the same sales letter).

I’d like to hear “I used this product and feel that it isn’t worth the $gazillion price tage for most people” OR “Truth is, I haven’t used this service, but I’m going on the reputation of the seller.” Or how about a flat-out “I don’t think this ebook is worth the $297 pricetag. You’ll find similar information for a lot less money at (fill in the blank)”

In other words, give me some REAL reviews, insights and information, not just a bunch of spammed sales letters. I’ll trust you dearly, and spend money with you over and over. But steer me wrong on even one lousy product (especially one where I can’t get my refund), and you’ve lost a customer.

I agree with you (and Rick has said this before). If you’re getting too much of the same junk, that little “unsubscribe” feature works really well. I’ve peeled my IM newsletters down to a handful, and I’m getting better information in far less time.

Rick hasn’t “single-handedly set back affiliate marketing to the dark ages.” Geez, now he’s going to have a HUGE head thinking he’s got that much power!

He’s simply called on folks to be good — not whorish — affiliate marketers. Why would anyone have a problem with that?

The Truth can really bite some times, can’t it?

P.S. I didn’t “get” that Rick was “dissing” John Reese and his new program. Did I miss something?

Thanks Dana -

Very well said.

You have captured my intentions and message here.

It’s hard to ignore how the marketplace (people who are on the receiving end of these emails) are feeling and reacting to this slam-launch-fest.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Rick

I found this post through Lynn Terry’s blog and have found the whole conversation interesting. I think Cassie is the only one who reported the frustrations of failure after following some guru’s sure-fire recipe for success. I’m one of the mostly-silent horde of people who’ve invested hundreds of dollars and yes, hundreds of hours working one formula or another to make only a pittance.

When the emphasis shifted to social marketing spam as the way to get traffic, I bailed out of the whole IM scene. But now that I’ve had time to fail at an offline business, I’m back again to see if there’s anything I can do in good conscience, I’m going to follow some of the links in the original post and the comments to get a flavor of what’s going on.

However, since I absolutely detest video as a way to learn something, at least I won’t be tempted to buy (and perhaps won’t benefit from) TS2.

The secret is to be able to UNDERSTAND the secret.

If you don’t know something, it is a secret to you.

If someone can TEACH you something, in a way that you can understand it, embrace it, and run with it – then it is worth the cost to learn said secret.

Example Topic: How to do searches on the Internet.

Google and Yahoo have “Help” areas that show you how to do online searches. No secrets there, right?

Um, then why do so many people stink at it?

Note: I have worked with doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs, who had no clue on how to use the search engines. And I mean the MAJORITY of people, from all walks of life, I have personally worked with have no clue.

If you (who are reading this comment now) are really good using the search engines then you are potentially a nerd, or have been online long enough and made efforts to figure it out. You are part of a minority.

In one of my niches, I have taught people how to use the search engines to become online research experts. I taught them the “secrets” of this topic.

Yes, in spite of all the Helps from Google, etc., and other online resources, my down-to-earth teaching on the topic opened a whole new world to them. I literally helped change their online lives. I know this because they told me that I did with glowing testimonials and reviews.

They were thrilled. The secret to them, was understood.

With online marketing, like so many other topics, there is information overload and confusion. Who is right, who is wrong?

John Reese did two things for me in the past years:

- He opened a whole new world about Internet marketing to me.

- He taught me in a way that I could understand.

One of the big factors to me with John is that he has tested so many things and actually been in the trenches doing it – and succeeding.

I believe there is no greater calling that that of a teacher.

So, teach me, Rick. There are plenty of things out there that are still secrets to me.

Use your powers for good. Build and do not tear down.
Robert

The number of comments proves this is a hot topic that MANY people feel concerned about.

It’s not about tearing down because options and solutions have already been presented by many of the commenters.

This thread is also not about John Reese, and it’s certainly not an attack on him. His product undoubtedly has value to many, that’s not in dispute.

John is merely the latest in a long line of marketers to use a promotional method that a lot of people (both customers and marketers) are concerned about.

The crux of the matter as I see it, is best presented as a question:

Should internet marketing related products be launched with hype, by affiliates and JV partners who use unscrupulous tactics, bombarding their lists, and competing against other promoters by adding ‘bribes’, OFTEN without having even seen the actual product they’re promoting?

Of course, customers DO have a choice, they CAN unsubscribe from a list, BUT customers can also be manipulated. After all, we are in a world of expert marketers who can make plenty of people believe that their product is the magic pill that’ll solve all their problems and make them lots of money.

It’s been my observation that a LOT of customers are starting to rebel. They’re starting to realize that they’ve spent lots of money without any results. They’re starting to realize that there really are few genuine ‘secrets’. They’re starting to realize that they need to find a mentor who provides help and value CONSISTENTLY, not just right before a launch with the sole purpose of whipping people up into a frenzy of excitement, only for them to be abandoned later, until the next launch…

Andrew Locks last blog post..Episode #13 – Cellphone Woes, Back End Sales, How to Choose a Reliable Web Host, and a Marketing Lesson from Zappos.com

Hello Rick and all who are following this post especially Deb who seems to have taken Rick’s post WAY too personal. I am with Dr. Dana Myatt on this one. John has done very very well for himself and to think that Rick can hurt his earnings or anyone else’s for that matter is off base to me. WAY OFF BASE!

If you are a good marketer then you CAN sell period! That is the bottom line. You can’t let one man’s opinion of what you’re doing or not doing stop you. There are always going to be haters and naysayers but to say that Rick hurt John’s sales is a weak a– cop out in my humble opinion. I mean some will, some won’t, so what next!!

When someone says to me that I can’t do this or can’t do that it just makes me more determined to prove them wrong. John’s first TS was good enough that it’s credibility alone is closing sales for John. I know I REALLY liked it and like John. As a matter of fact I am one of these guys who was waiting for all the bonuses to come out before I decided to buy. Rick’s post is certainly not going to stop me. No offense Rick.

A very good friend of mines once said “You’re not a real marketer if you can’t stand on your own two feet. If all you can do is ask others to mail to their lists for you then that isn’t marketing because anyone can do that.” Now we all KNOW John Reese does not NEED people to mail for him. He CAN obviously stand on his OWN two feet but there are alot of folks out there who can’t. So what they NEED to do is LEARN HOW TO MARKET BETTER. If Affiliate Marketers out there are going to allow what Rick says and think “victimize” them then they need to get out of the game. You have to be able to bring it or just don’t get involved. I can’t concern myself with what others say. I just hone my skills more and use what others say as fuel to succeed.

John Reese is considered a legend by alot of folks in this industry and his reputation and credibility alone probably sold the copies of TS 2.0 that DID sell. Yeah some Affiliate marketers threw in their bonuses to make more sales for John and themselves but it’s not like John would’ve starved if they hadn’t. I am sure John is doing quite well with this launch.

You have to build a relationship with your list. You have to have built an affinity with your list and that is what makes or breaks the deal. Not one man’s opinion which Rick IS entitled to just like you are Deb but I think you misread Rick’s post and intention in the post.

There are too many folks out there who DO pimp out their lists for a commission without really giving a damn about people’s success. WHERE is the follow up? Where is their intent to make sure the customers that buy through their links understand the material THEY are endorsing. Those that just come out to make a quick buck are the folks you should be attacking Deb. I mean isn’t this still America that we live in? Don’t we have freedom of speech here? Last I checked we did.

I don’t know ONE IM’er or Affiliate Marketer that AFTER he or she endorses a product as an affiliate and makes that nice affiliate commission takes it upon THEMSELVES to put on a free teleseminar or webinar making sure that folks consume the material and understand it. I’ve never known or heard that happen. There is no “after you buy through my link” support or follow up. They just leave buyers on their own. I am referring to the affiliates and not the owner of the product. John has offered to do alot for the buyers on this TS 2.0 but I am referring to affiliates in general. They just figure it is the author or owner of the original product’s responsibility but it would be nice once in a while to see affiliates follow up and make sure their subscribers/buyers are getting all they can out of the product. I may be wrong and if I am I apologize but have never heard of such a thing. Affiliates move on after promoting a product. I mean they deliver their bonuses and then you are on your own.

I don’t know you Deb and you don’t know me but I know Rick well enough to say that I seriously do not think his intent was to kill John’s sales. I think he was just pointing out some things that were maybe bothering him and a lot of folks will admit that they DO get tired of receiving tons of emails on the same product launch. I think it is healthy to opt out of IM’ers lists who are not contributing value to their subscribers. If the ONLY time you hear from a marketer is when there is a big launch then unsubscribe I say. I know alot of marketers who DON’T take the time to give a sh– about their subscribers. All they care about is their commissions. They do not educate, help or freely give to their lists. They use the word sheeple in private conversations but would never say it to peoples faces. Who is stepping up for the buyers of the products? Where is their voice when they buy products BECAUSE an affiliate is pushing pushing pushing it down their throats and they never can implement it. It just collects dust on their hard drives. Who feels bad for them?

Are all affiliate marketers “bad” or “selfish” of course not! I am just saying to look around and see how many of them really do follow up to insure the success of their buyers?

Either way I believe we are all entitled to our opinions and if a person does not like the programming then they can just change the channel. It is as simple as that as I see it.

Thanks for reading.

p.s.
For all I know maybe I misunderstood everyone who’s posted comments on this post including you Deb but does that make me a bad guy? Nah just misunderstood like Rick I guess.

God bless you and yours

p.s.s
It is not my intention to disrespect Deb, John, Rick or anyone else for that matter so I hope this comment does not get misread and start another fire.

Part of the problem is including affiliates and “jv partners” in a launch.

I often advise new online businesses NOT to launch an affiliate program when they are just starting out – for five reasons:
http://www.affiliate-software-review.com/asrblog/5-reasons-not-to-launch-___-with-an-affiliate-program2

But now that I read my original blog post I realize that I’ve assumed that IM launches are different. Yes they’re different … they’re different in the sense that they’re getting out of hand.

I think I’ll rewrite my post to say that even in the IM world you shouldn’t launch with masses of affiliates, for the same reasons you wouldn’t start an affiliate program when launching in any other niche.

Give good value, get happy customers referring you more, figure out how to optimize your conversion, then start buying traffic … and maybe then think about starting an aff. program.

Rick,

You have written precisely what I thought. I unsubscribed from 3-4 lists as a direct result of big-launch whoring – Mike Filsaime was one of these lists.

I watched John Reese’s videos about TS2 and it looks a good product, although not something I want right now. The hyperbole and bullsh^t that it was wrapped in by “the 12 whores” just took the biscuit & I decided to tune them out.

I think such a big part of social networking is trust, and they blew it.

Thanks for an enlightened post.

Lee

Lee Duncans last blog post..Business Success & The Milkman…

Thank you again Rick for bringing a smile to face.
This Internet Thing intrigues me.
Especially from a Marketers viewpoint.

People are seeking information.

For a multitude of reasons.

And thanks to The Power of this medium, it
is available for FREE in almost all situations. One must be diligent, as we were in the past, and seek the Information, spend Time & Energy instead of Massive Capital.

Now I understand that you can BUY your way into Success, there are example of that all over the net…

But thanks to people like yourself and others the “average Joe and Jane” can learn HOW TO BUILD successful businesses through this Medium.

The new name “Social Networking” is what we have been practicing for 50 years

I still favor Off-line Businesses, much more lucrative currently, and the ability to Rifle Focus the prospects is easier. Not a lot of wannabes.

My off-line consulting grows from Realistic Clients who know what they have to do to get on top and stay there.

I really appreciate your Candor and talent.
Hope to meet up some day